to think that 4 boys should not be a deal breaker

[ItsCagain]

We have 4 boys 15 13 11 6. i can’t help but feel so jealous at people who go to Christmas markets with their kids. We can barely go out for dinner without them killing each other or be so difficult you just want to leave. This morning i saw some pic of a friend with their son and daughter last night and it makes me so sad that we can’t do that anymore with ours or at least not without complete despair

We have 2 boys are we are the same. I just can't face the bickering, fighting and stress. It ruins any outing, family visit or holiday. 😞

I have 4 kids, 2 boys 2 girls, 11, 6, 2 and 1. My 2 year old has autism also. Going out is an absolute nightmare. It is so stressful that we just don't do it much anymore 😪 I completely feel your pain. My oldest is fine. My 6 year old spent most of what he can remember in lock down so just doesn't like going out at all and loves to be in the comfort of home. My 2 year old will be OK briefly but when she decides she's had enough that's it. You may aswell drop everything and leave!
I, myself rarely venture out alone in the week when my husband is at work and 2 oldest at school. I cannot face the thought of being in public in the midst of a meltdown, trying to juggle 2 toddlers alone! I do often look at people with 1 or 2 children and think my god your life must be so peaceful and easy with a wave of envy followed by guilt because I wouldn't change my chaotic (but very happy) household for anything! I do feel your pain though you arent alone ❤️

Yeah, all the acres of sweets at kid level, fancy hot chocolate, cute iced gingerbread, traditional carousels, ice skating, they'd probably hate it.

My boys are pretty well behaved in general (3 of them) but I wouldn't dream of taking them to a Christmas market.
We only do things they enjoy and if they won't enjoy it we do it without them. My 7 year old in particular is a delight on a kids centred day out, but like the devil incarnate in a shopping centre for example.

Not just boys I have 2 daughters 3 years apart Couldn't take them anywhere together without risking fighting and arguing. Much more peaceful after DD1 moved to Manchester at 18 They are now 32 and nearly 29 and still don't really get on but can be polite on rare occasions they see each other

I don't think 15 and 13 year olds need "memorable" family days out at that age. I have a ten year gap between my boy and girl and wouldn't have forced him into family Xmas activities at those ages beyond a meal out.

Would bribing them every once in a while work, maybe say we will go to McDonalds after if ye don’t fight, This might get them out of the habit of fighting

I will probably be slated for saying the above though

I have three boys OP. Can't take them anywhere without someone fighting someone. Can't imagine 4! Can feel your pain though as its hard work and exhausting. I also have a middle child who I suspect is on the spectrum and so cries over things like noise, crowds etc and is then ganged up on by the other two who don't understand that he's not trying to annoy them, it's just how he feels. I fought with my two brothers like cats and dogs though and now as adults we are all close. So despite the battles they can take you out all together when they are adults and treat you to a calm lunch hopefully!

This too will pass.

I have one of each young adults now and they still embarrass me and tear strips off each other when we go out.

We have identical female twins. On a beach in Menorca, a total stranger came up to us to say she had thought twins always got on well together til she’d watched ours fighting as they played! We were later complimented on their immaculate table manners in a restaurant. They are as they are. Enjoy them. They grow up.

Could you take them out 2 at a time. My sister had 3 boys who squabbled a lot and a DD. She took them out 2 at a time leaving other 2 at home with her DH. He sometimes took 2 out as well leaving the other 2 at home with my sister. As they got older their behaviour improved but when she had 4 under 9 it was hard.

@T1Dmama Why do kids fight with their siblings so much these days?

Er, sibling rivalry is the cause of the first recorded murder, if the Old Testament is to be believed! I don’t think it’s down to ‘these days’ at all.

Op, to be honest and at the risk of sounding like the grinch, I think Christmas is partly to do with it - combined with dark days, a hell of a long term at school, little chance to burn off energy, cooped up indoors more than normal and the build up makes for cranky kids of all ages. It will come right.

And, I hesitate to write this but bear with me.

I have a son (nearly 3) I love dearly, a lovely husband, my brother is lovely, my dad was too, as is FIL. I don’t want to sound anti men at all.

But, if I can speak generally for a moment - there’s a lot of ‘well I have girls and … the problem is four kids, not four boys …’ and this is always the case on threads about boy children being hard work or similar. I do understand we don’t want things to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

However, even a brief look at statistics do indicate big differences. Boys are far more likely to be permanently excluded and suspended from school. There are far more male prisoners than female, and they are more likely to have committed a violent or sexual offence.

How much of that is caused by the environment around boys and men and how much is innate, I don’t know. But I don’t think we do our sons any favours to ignore that and claim girls are somehow just as bad -
that might be true on an individual level but on a societal level, it isn’t. I don’t necessarily have the answers, but denying the question certainly isn’t it.

Growing up as one of 4 boys I would say this is reality. Kids of different ages, interests and perspectives.

@ItsCagain

See, the thing that jumps out at me is that when your first three boys were 9,7 and 5, all settled in school, you had a newborn. That's going to be a big age gap right the way through childhood and teenage years tbh. When the eldest becomes an adult, you'll still have one in primary school. It's a stretch to believe there are really that many activities and outings they can all enjoy together. I wouldn't have thought a Christmas market is an attractive proposition to many kids to be fair.

I know there are no guarantees that siblings will get along well, even twins, but at least with close ages they're more likely to be at he same stage and it's more likely to find family activities which work.

A 15 year old is at the stage of wanting to hang out with friends and be more independent, whereas your youngest at 6 is still very much at the age of needing constant supervision and being with mum and dad.

Your best bet really is to accept that whole family activities aren't likely to happen, so do things with them separately or perhaps the older three and then different activities for the 6 year old.

I have 4 children, 13, 5, 3 and 1. I most certainly don’t post when my 5 year old and 3 year old are at each others throats. Or when my 1 year old is trying to escape in every direction and then screams when you put him in a pram/high chair. My middle two will attempt to start something but stop when I squash it as they understand we will be going home if they carry on. So it’s not always sunshine and rainbows but nobody ever sees that part of it, definitely don’t compare your family to other families you see on social media. My 13 SD is done with all of us so her face is 😐 no matter where we are 😂

I am realistic these days about what we can do as a family. I refuse to take my dc to a restaurant any more after too many times where it was a disaster with everybody moody and at least one person storming off and then me footing the bill for something that no one enjoyed.

I’ve got girls btw but I do take the point that a pp made about more boys/young men in PRU and prisons although both my darling daughters did end up in a PRU.

I am 48 years old and just thought - for the first time ever - that it might be nice to go to a Christmas market. Definitely for old people…

I understand where you're coming from but there are also studies that show that women and girls are more likely to perpetrate indirect and verbal aggression and digital/social media aggression. Whilst we all try to steer clear of gender stereotypes, there is a reason they exist. Girls being nasty to one another at school is a noticeable issue and one a lot of us have personal experience with, and can also play out at home.

Like you said at a 'societal level' there is an issue with criminality in boys, such as gang violence and assault etc. but how often is your average family on Mumsnet impacted by this? Most posters claiming their boys are hard work are referring to petty arguments amongst siblings, wrestling, talking back, general difficult behaviour.

I'd say in your average loving family environment, there is no reason to believe that boys will be 'more hard work' in terms of behaviour than girls.
The challenges may be different, but a lot of it is personality dependent.

Also a quick Google of polls by parents shows that on the whole, boys are actually seen as easier to raise than girls.

Also a quick Google of polls by parents shows that on the whole, boys are actually seen as easier to raise than girls.

As a sweeping generalisation, based entirely on anecdotal observation, I think girls tend to be "easier" in the early years - less destructive, more likely to engage in peaceful play, craft etc, quicker to catch social cues, potty train etc BUT from around age 7 onwards boys are "easier" - less complicated, clearer on what they want, more easily satisfied, less likely to complain.

Possibly this is why new mothers are concerned about having boys - if you've only seen under 3s close up, the girls often do seem a lot more civilized. However, if you spend some time around 7-10 year olds, the boys are often a lot more relaxed and friendly.

Obviously exceptions exist (plenty of them) but I find this to be broadly true so far (I have 4 boys, my eldest is nearly 12, youngest is nearly 5) and 3 of my closest friends have daughters around the same age. And I don't know about the teen years yet....

I have two boys, both ND, both teen, and they have barely spoken to each other for at least a year. When you get, they fought horribly, so this feels like an improvement.

they have very different personalities and would not choose to be friends. One is ASD and likes planned out activities knowing exactly what is happening and not deviating, one is adhd, hyper fixates, thrives on chaos. I have settled for 2 or three days a year doing something they both really like (theme park / cinema with gallery tickets where you get extras) and we can do a fairly decent impression of a happy day as long as I manage their needs.

It can be difficult actually when they’re little, as a “boy mum” to be friends with “girl mums” - they don’t understand why your child won’t sit quietly doing crafts!

It can be difficult actually when they’re little, as a “boy mum” to be friends with “girl mums” - they don’t understand why your child won’t sit quietly doing crafts!

Oh yes!!! My dear, kind friend who kept giving my lads colouring books and fimo and effing Hama beads for birthday presents because they were what her same aged daughters loved (and created beautiful things with) and I was too embarrassed to say "unless I keep them in the boxes and re-gift ASAP these will only ever be used as missiles in my house.. "