To not forgive?

[Rattymcratty]

This may be more of a philosophical question than your usual aibu. Well it’s regarding my MIL so maybe it is your regular AIBU!

What is forgiveness? What does forgiveness look like? Does everyone deserve it?

Essentially MIL wants me to ‘forgive and forget’ to move on with family life. She’s constantly mentioning to DH that I’m stubborn, need to have forgiveness, soften up, need to build a bridge, ‘let us put it all behind us’ and ‘forgive and forget’. She really wronged us both, she feels she did nothing wrong, DH went NC for 6 months and I haven’t ‘came around’.

She’s asked DH what she can say/do for me to forgive her which to me defeats the object of wanting forgiveness. She’s brought me flowers and tried to break the ice but I honestly want nothing to do with her. She’s never offered an apology, not reflected that she did any wrong doing and at best only tried to justify her actions.

How can I forgive when she has zero remorse nor took any accountability for what she has done?

Any progress on therapy for your DH? Nothing is going to change until he sees the situation clearly.

That last sentence is vile, what was his reaction to it?

It's time for you to make dh chose between you and them.

Maybe not but bloody hell.

There will always be a line that ultimately defines the 'unforgiveable'. A mere MIL hardly defines that. Given how even statistically you're very likely to have more than one MIL in your life, I'd save all your anger for the actual real 'transgressors' who you will very probably come across instead.

I think you need to consider moving far away from these toxic people. That way your ghastly MIL can't do any more harm to your DH and God forbid can't start on your daughter.

And as PP said your poor DH needs therapy.

You lost me at "crying for hours in the foetal position" . You lost the wedding you wanted and can never get that back, he got his mum back. I'd say he's a mummy's boy, which would of turned me right off.

Instead of ignoring her you could reply to every overture (would you like some tomato plants) with 'no thank you, actually what I would like would be a genuine apology'

Except maybe you have got past wanting that and just want not to see her

I think you're an angel OP. I truly think I'd have told my husband to choose your Mum or me.

I can't believe your husband is still allowing this to go on.

You're a much better person than me.

And NO I'd never forgive her behaviour.

I wouldn't allow such a toxic, selfish witch to step foot in my house OP.

Can you move away?

Lottapianos, I agree with this. It takes time to process it all. That said, one can choose to forgive intellectually and through an act of will but the feelings won't neccessarily follow, if you see what I mean?

Forgiveness comes when it's deserved.

When the person of wrong doing owns their actions and makes moves to apologise and correct their wrong doing.

This is why you are struggling

I received another message today saying how lovely would it be for us all to spend Xmas together as a family, a fresh start for the new year and to put the past behind us etc. ‘Jesus taught us to forgive’ for good measure.

The last six messages I’ve ignored over the past two years. Tonight I replied how I refuse to brush everything under the carpet, she’s never offered an apology and she should be happy that she still has contact with DD.

I do feel bad for DH as I’m sure she’ll make his life a misery for the next few weeks but I have just had enough for turning the other cheek.

Good for you!

If she was genuinely interested in having a fresh start with you she'd have apologised long ago to both of you and would be doing everything she could to make it up to you. Instead she constantly makes passive aggressive jibes at you and takes snipes at you.

Your DH should have some counselling and go extremely low contact with them. Sometimes family are just not nice people.

She’s not going to change, OP. She sincerely thinks she’s faultless and/or doesn’t know how to show regret or remorse or offer an apology. It’ll be about saving face as the matriarch, supported and enabled by her DH.

I feel bad for your DH. It’s so hard to detach from parents, especially when they hold other people to ransom too (eg your BILs who she clearly has equally under her thumb). He can go the rest of her life feeling like this and behaving this way. It’s tragic, in a grown man. A father himself. But it really is hard to detach and say no.

Is he, and are you both, open to speaking to a relationship expert who can give you some techniques and methods to cope with this behaviour? It may not be a case of cutting her/everyone off completely. It may just be asserting boundaries, or YOU dictating the terms of your relationship and referring her back to them when she pushes them. There will have to be an ultimatum at some point, so you’d both need to get comfortable with that.

It’s awful dealing with people like this. They suck the life and energy out of you. Make life a misery. But they needn’t. It really does help if you feel a sense of control. Imagine and come to terms with the worst before asserting yourself.

@Rattymcratty

It probably would have been best to ignore her message. She isn't hearing you. I know it gives momentary satisfaction to let her have it, but you actually accomplished her aim in contacting you. Now she will go back to everyone and sob about how mean you are not wanting to be with the faaahhhmmmiillllyy for Christmas. She didn't want 'forgiveness' from you, she wanted ammo to use against you. And you rose to the bait.

Do you not have her blocked everywhere? You should. And if she creates new accounts (as I mentioned upthread) block them and notify the website that she is harassing you.

Since you say DD still has contact with her, I assume your DH is just as milk-soppy as before. I think you need to think carefully about future contact and whether or not DH will actually monitor what she says and actually speak up to her. Because if not, she will poison DD against you.

It may be a double edged sword, but especially if DH isn't speaking up to her, do you want him to tell you what she says and do you trust him to be truthful?

You can forgive actions once they're over, and that isn't the case here. She'll continue doing the same thing because she's fundamentally bad.

Why don't you just block her? If you stop giving her access to you, and get DH to man up about not having her over to the house (they can meet elsewhere) then it'd go some way to reducing her power over you?

Jesus did teach us to forgive. That is true. What you do with that is up to you. This Christmas season should be about families coming together, in all their weird and challenging complexities, in peace and love.

As I said in a previous post, we are only seeing one side of this multi - sided story, as seen through your lens. That aside, it is very clear that you have no time for your partner’s mum and your child’s grandmother. Are you perhaps, maybe, getting something from hating her? I feel sad for your partner that he is forced to be piggy in the middle. Your hatred of her will never stop his love for his mum, nor her love for him and her grandchild. His loyalty will be to you, but he will be torn. None of this is his making. You and his mum and how you are with each other is bound to make him unhappy, not just her.

The fact is that his mum will continue to be a problem in your life until she dies, or unless the marriage ends. She’s his mum and is not going anywhere. For your own sake, and to help make life a little less challenging for your partner, perhaps you need to find a new way of handling this/her/your reactions?

Some wrongs are harder to forgive than others. Some people are harder to forgive than others. What does forgiveness look like? Imagine the resentment you feel by not forgiving is like holding a burning coal in your hand because you want to throw it at someone who has wronged you. Who are you hurting by holding on to it? Not them. Letting go of the burning coal is what forgiveness looks like. By letting go you are no longer hurting yourself because of what others have done to you. The problem is forgiveness is an ongoing process. Once you choose to forgive you have to commit to keeping it going for that person and constantly work on it until you are over that particular wrong. And not everyone can do that bit because it’s hard. If you forgive, you can’t keep dragging the wrong up every time they get under your skin.

Message her back and say “since you mention Jesus it also says in the bible “do unto others”
“reap what you sow”

This Christmas season should be about families coming together, in all their weird and challenging complexities, in peace and love

In that case for the sake of peace and love the MIL needs to apologise.

What does your DH say when his mum badmouths you to your daughter? He should issue an ultimatum that if she ever speaks negatively about you to your DD, the contact will immediately stop.

You have been more than accommodating by letting her have a relationship with your DD and lots of people wouldn't do that after what she has said and done.

My mum went no contact with my grandmother due to hideous comments she made to my mum after her second stillbirth. She didn't stop me seeing her, but I didn't want to visit without my mum.

OP's MIL threatened to and then did disown her own son for not allowing her to completely take over their wedding planning (despite not even making a financial contribution). He was broken by her actions. She doesn't love her son and I doubt she genuinely loves her grand-daughter. This is all about control, saving face and keeping up appearances. The face that she brings Jesus into this is laughable. I'm an atheist but surely Jesus only forgives when there is true repentance? MIL has never given even an insincere apology, never mind being genuinely sorry for ruining their wedding and hurting her own son.

OP and her DH should cut her off completely and remove her toxic influence from their daughter's life.

I find it so weird how people put the onus on repairing the relationship in the victim.
”Yeah, your MIL treated you like absolute garbage, verbally abused you and your husband, is trying to emotionally manipulate your young child, but faaaaaamily!”

Wanna quote the Bible? Sure. Let’s start with the leave and cleave. Husband isn’t in the middle. He chose his wife when he married her.

Then we can move onto Titus 3:10-11:

10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.

I swear, loads of people love to make Biblical proclamations, but I really don’t think many of them have actually read the darn thing.

Forgiveness and reconciliation are two separate things. I can (and have) forgiven people, but have zero interest in ever being around them again. To put it in Christian terms, I know that being around them will result in them sinning again with their words and actions. The kindest thing I can do, for everyone involved, is to stay away.

Wise words