To not forgive?

[Rattymcratty]

This may be more of a philosophical question than your usual aibu. Well it’s regarding my MIL so maybe it is your regular AIBU!

What is forgiveness? What does forgiveness look like? Does everyone deserve it?

Essentially MIL wants me to ‘forgive and forget’ to move on with family life. She’s constantly mentioning to DH that I’m stubborn, need to have forgiveness, soften up, need to build a bridge, ‘let us put it all behind us’ and ‘forgive and forget’. She really wronged us both, she feels she did nothing wrong, DH went NC for 6 months and I haven’t ‘came around’.

She’s asked DH what she can say/do for me to forgive her which to me defeats the object of wanting forgiveness. She’s brought me flowers and tried to break the ice but I honestly want nothing to do with her. She’s never offered an apology, not reflected that she did any wrong doing and at best only tried to justify her actions.

How can I forgive when she has zero remorse nor took any accountability for what she has done?

Forgiveness is where you say "what you did was wrong, but I'm not dwelling on it, not eaten up with anger, and I genuinely wish you well". You are not saying "it's ok, it doesn't matter" or "let's pretend it didn't happen" or even "I trust you not to do it again". Like if your sibling borrowed your car and then drove like a loon and wrecked it, you could forgive them and also never lend them your car ever again.

Forgiveness is difficult when the person who hurt you doesn't acknowledge that they did anything wrong, but it's possible. Rebuilding a trusting relationship in that situation is impossible.

Next time she asks you to forgive, ask for a detailed written explanation of what it is that she feels she needs forgiveness for. You'll be waiting a while because she doesn't think she needs forgiveness, she just wants you to pretend it never happened.

I have mostly forgiven my own parents for what they did to me and I do hope they are having a nice life, but there is no way I'm laying myself open to have them treat me badly again, so I do not see them.

PeppermintMandy said it much more succinctly 😃

This really.

What she did was cruel.

Forgiveness for me isn’t about the person who wronged you. It’s about you deciding to not give it any more of your time or energy. You don’t need an apology to forgive. You can just say to yourself, she did that because she’s got her own issues which she refuses to work on and that’s just sad.

To me, that's acceptance and is a good thing, but it shouldn't mean that someone feels they have to have a relationship with the other person moving forwards.

Yep but MiL isn't really asking her to forgive because she doesn't think she did anything wrong. What's she's asking for is for OP to pretend it never happened so that MiL can continue ruling everyone's lives with no repercussions.

Poor DH and poor you. Why did he get back in contact? He needs to have a conversation that 1. you do not need to do anything in relation to her. 2. If she wants to be forgiven she needs to sincerely apologise and demonstrate she understands why this is necessary. 3. Show by her ongoing actions she really understands healthy boundaries and 4. Stop telling him what she thinks you are not doing correctly as he does not need to hear it. I suspect that may lead to blow back for him, but if she is as unreasonable as she sounds, he may be better off with that. About 75% of people who go no contact with family express regret over it so it is a really hard thing to do, but sometimes it really is better for mental health.

She sounds an overbearing pain in the arse. The thing is in life: do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

Wow I’m not surprised you don’t want anything to do with her. And like you say she’s not acknowledging what she did.

I think forgiveness here, is forgiving yourself of your own feelings that you don't want further contact. Take away the inner turmoil realise that it's perfectly fine to want NC and space. It's perfectly fine not too forgive on the basis of a bunch of flowers.
So yes, forgive yourself for having these feelings and be at peace that the decision you are making is the right one for you.

The idea that we should forgive others for our own sake is wrong in situations like this, in my view. There's no sign of remorse, and it sounds as though there never will be as she lacks sufficient humility and consideration for the feelings of others. I suspect a narcissistic personality disorder of some sort. If it were me, I would cut all contact (while making it clear to your DH that you are not forcing him to do the same).

I've done this in the past (for less serious things), and find it's possible to forget without needing to forgive the unforgivable. To answer your philosophical question, forgetting is perhaps underrated vs forgiving, possibly because forgiveness is central to so many religions. But I've found that it's possible to move on happily without having to appease someone who does not deserve your time and focus.

I would not forgive that. She is not your mother and she is nasty.

Her son can see her if he wants, and maybe he ought to.

The worst part was when she said she would have gone to the wedding anyway, so she did all that manipulative stuff for sport.

I'm sorry OP, what your in-laws did was absolute shit and they don't deserve to be forgiven. They clearly feel no remorse for their actions, they ruined YOUR big day. My in-laws threw tantrums during our wedding planning and dictated pretty much everything, from start to finish. I know how it feels, they threatened they wouldn't come to our wedding if we didn't pick a fancy venue. We wanted to keep it simple, low key and not spend so much but they wanted to show off to the world and expected nothing less than a 5 star hotel.

We went 15k over budget, money that could have been saved for our home deposit. It's been a shit show and they've done lots more since. I have ZERO respect for them and have gone very low contact.

I say stick to your gut feeling and DO NOT forgive or excuse such despicable behaviour. Write a message/letter to them and let them know all the shit they've done and that you will not tolerate being disrespected. Make it clearly you're not going to forget or forgive, period. End the letter sternly and abruptly, such nasty bullies should be taught a lesson.

jeez, I’d not bother with her either, you are not BU OP
what a horrible thing she did

She’s asked DH what she can say/do for me to forgive her

She should be asking you
Out of interest, what could she say or do - is there anything? - for you to forgive her and what form would you want that to take?

Bloody hell. She didn't forget your birthday or something, she was a complete and utter cow, you didn't get the wedding you wanted and you're supposed to act as though it doesn't matter?

No way.

@Rattymcratty

Forgiveness isn’t about the other person, it’s about you. It’s about making a conscious decision to let go of all the hurt, anger and upset that you feel towards the other person, in betterment of your own emotional and mental health. It’s about not allowing them to rent anymore space in your mind.

It’s like the serenity prayer, having the serenity, courage and wisdom to understand that you cannot change what’s happened or who the other person is.

Your PIL’s did a despicable thing. Are they worthy of forgiveness? Probably not. But equally, are you worthy of emotional and mental peace? Yes, of course you are! They don’t need to know if you can forgive for your own peace of mind. It matters not one whit if they know or not. Because you aren’t forgiving them for them, but for you.

Write your PIL’s a letter, explaining why you cancelled your wedding and their rôle in it. Tell them that until they understand what they did wrong, and they can fully explain to you what they did and why it was wrong, you have no wish to interact with them. Tell them that even once they understand their part in why you cancelled the wedding, you still don’t want to have contact with them. Explain to them that it’s because of their manipulation. Explain how you love your DH so much that it was heart breaking to watch him go through all the pain that they put him through.

You don’t have to post this letter. But sometimes, just getting all that emotion out there can be cathartic.

You don’t have to have a relationship with them, nor do your DC. But you do need to have strong boundaries around your DH seeing them. Your DH needs to ensure that he doesn’t tell you anything about them and that he doesn’t turn into their flying monkey. And you absolutely must tell him this 🌺

I would never even consider forgiving their behaviour, good grief, it doesn’t get much worse than that. I would let DH have whatever sort of relationship he wanted with his family but wouldn’t have anything to do with them.

I really wouldn't want someone like that in my life. I'd always be thinking about what's next.

To really want true forgiveness she needs to be truly sorry, say what she did/said was wrong, she should never have acted in such manner. That she knows it can’t be undone but she wishes it could. Forgiveness means you accept the apology, forgetting means you move forward. It does not mean you condone the actions in any way, it does not mean the hurt diminishes

This

She doesn't want your forgiveness. She wants you to just forget it ever happened, and to not take any responsibility for her actions.

My MIL has done 3 things which aren't as serious as what your MIL did. I will never forgive her for those things, but we now have a cordial relationship and in other respects she's faultless. I won't ever stand in the way of her relationships with DH and our DC. I've contextualised what she did and said. Her wrongs can't be righted because those were one-off times that I'll never have back, just like your wedding, but life has to go on.

In your shoes, I'd tell her baldly all the above. That you've not forgotten and won't ever forgive, that the responsibility for your and DH's hurt is 100% hers in your eyes and that will never change; that you don't want to hear any more about it and can move on. Whatever her reaction, ignore it (she won't like it, I'd wager). The point is to tell her what you think, when you're ready, and put it behind you so you can move on. It's for YOUR benefit, not hers. For YOU to move on, not her. She will take responsibility for her actions for ever onwards, in the form of her relationship with you both being forever tarnished. It's not meant to be a punishment. It's just what it is: consequences.

Keep her away from you - if you have children keep further away. What a first class bitch. No contact all round would be best but your DH seems trauma bonded to this dysfunctional woman. She’s trying to weed her way back in. F…. Off!!! 🌺for you.

I don't think there's any need to complicate things with philosophy really. You don't want anything to do with your MiL unless she says she was wrong, apologises and demonstrates that there will be no recurrence of whatever it was she did. It might be more straightforward if your DH just passed that on as the message, rather than talking about forgiveness and what it means. Your MiL wants to move forward with an amicable relationship and no further reference to The Bad Thing. Just tell the woman what she can do to make it happen, or tell her it's never going to happen. Much clearer for all.

She doesn’t want forgiveness. That would imply she knows she’s done wrong and has regret.

whe she wants, for her own convenience, is for you to sweep it all under the rug, pretend it didn’t happen, move past it, get over it, never talk about it again and all carry on as normal.

not cus she feels rotten, not because she knows she did wrong and can’t live with herself. Simply because it would be easier for her.

mark my words, have kids and she’ll be the MIL turning up at the hospital 2 minutes after the baby has crowned demanding to hold her precious first grand child and have him overnight from one week old etc

Get her to fuck! It wouldn’t even be a question just a flat out no!