To not forgive?

[Rattymcratty]

This may be more of a philosophical question than your usual aibu. Well it’s regarding my MIL so maybe it is your regular AIBU!

What is forgiveness? What does forgiveness look like? Does everyone deserve it?

Essentially MIL wants me to ‘forgive and forget’ to move on with family life. She’s constantly mentioning to DH that I’m stubborn, need to have forgiveness, soften up, need to build a bridge, ‘let us put it all behind us’ and ‘forgive and forget’. She really wronged us both, she feels she did nothing wrong, DH went NC for 6 months and I haven’t ‘came around’.

She’s asked DH what she can say/do for me to forgive her which to me defeats the object of wanting forgiveness. She’s brought me flowers and tried to break the ice but I honestly want nothing to do with her. She’s never offered an apology, not reflected that she did any wrong doing and at best only tried to justify her actions.

How can I forgive when she has zero remorse nor took any accountability for what she has done?

I hadn't seen the update....that does seem very extreme.
First your DH needs to make it clear the fall out is not over not having the wedding you wanted....the fall out is about their behaviour.
And that behaviour was so extremely upsetting its difficult to forgive.
But you don't have to forgive or forget to give a second chance, or be cordial.
You don't have to hold a grudge or continue to be hostile.

You can and should be cautious, but for your OH sake try and rise above and just accept she's who she is.

If I were you any children I had would only have very limited interaction with them and only then if DH really insisted they had some contact but you don't need toxic fuckers like this messing with your kids head. They wouldn't be allowed in my house tbh.

It's not that hard. Why can't OP never speak to her again? Even if she does have children. She doesn't have to say a word with her and certainly doesn't have to treat her with any civility

She simply doesn't come into her home or come around her. And should there be children then DH can take them off his own back when they are old enough.

There is a difference between forgiving and forgetting.
I've told this story before, from my confirmation class. The lovely priest taking the class, when a little boy, had a silly squabble with his sister, and in a fit of childish rage, stabbed her arm with some scissors. He actually loved his sister dearly, and was instantly remorseful. She accepted this, and forgave him. However, she bore the scar on her arm for the rest of her life.
Some actions have consequences that cannot be undone.
You can be the bigger person, and forgive her, so that the resentment doesn't eat you up, but the damage she did cannot be undone. In fact, it appears that she is not genuinely remorseful, but is avoiding her own sense of guilt by trying to minimise her own spiteful actions in her own mind. Even if this breach can be healed, things will never be the same. She had the opportunity to treat you as the daughter she never had, and comprehensively blew it. If she can be so spiteful to her own son, and then try to laugh it all off, she can really only expect restrained courtesy from you, moving forward.

Well what do you want the outcome to be?

Her behaviour sounds unhinged and you'd be reasonable to go NC or LC because of it - in which case that's your answer. You don't want to be around her so you don't need to forgive her. Up to you whether you feel you can handle this grudge hanging over you.

If you want to maintain any semblance of a relationship and if her apologies are genuine, though, you'll need to be magnanimous.

Yeah it’s a big fuck no from me too.

It seems that they are trying to minimise what happened and just gloss over the event and the subsequent impact. I’m all up for a quiet life but not at the expense of my sanity and this unacknowledged chasm between what’s being said now and what was done then would drive me CRAZY.

You might not ever get closure but you don’t need to participate in the delusion

This sounds very sensible OP!
You could say yes you forgive her. Mainly because she is presumably unhinged ( don't say that part).
But due to her actions there is so much disappointment and hurt it's not clear if she can ever make that right so things will always be different.

Absolutely bloody well not. I would not forgive her batshit antics prior to your wedding in a million years.

YEESH!!!!
I wonder if 'dear' old FiL had any say in his wedding, or if his future wife and MiL just told him how things were going to be??
Does he have any say in his life? Or does she wear the trousers?
I'd have gone on with the wedding, if they turned up then ok, but if they didn't then at least you'd have known there'd have been no interruptions!!
I do feel for your DH, but at least he does seem to have a spine and a mind of his own, at least some of the time!
When/if you have children, PLEASE set up some ground rules from the start that HAVE to be adhered to by ALL!!!
Were your parents not around to help with the wedding? If they were, I'm surprised there wasn't all out war between both sets of parents - I'd have been telling the old bat to butt out, she'd had her day!! 🤣
She's obviously used to getting her own way and not used to another woman in the family, or even not in the family, having some sort of say in things, especially in their own lives!
STAND YOUR GROUND, or she will always be thinking, and no doubt letting everyone else know, that she is above you and you kowtow to her!
She sounds like a proper nasty bitch!!

Like hell would I forgive and forget this. I’d never see or speak to her again.

The problem here (for me) would be that forgiveness really requires the behaviour to have stopped. Your MIL is still trying to control you, she obviously doesn't regret what she did, and she sees it as your place to get over it and give her the family life she wants.

I have a pretty awful family. Worse than your MIL sometimes. I have forgiven them all. How? Distance. It's easier to forgive my violent father and sister, my spiteful and manipulative mother etc, if I don't have to have any contact with them. My presence is what sets the behaviour off, so everybody benefits if I don't ever see them (to be clear, I don't do anything, it's literally my existence that "causes" it).

What really helped me was working out the cycle of behaviour- the gifts and attention to draw me in, followed by unreasonable demands, which lead to physical and/or emotional abuse when I refused. Then there would be a long period of ignoring me, until the cycle started again. If you can break the cycle by changing your own reactions, then you are home and dry. It sounds like you are well on the way to that.

I couldn’t forgive her. She has ruined your wedding and made the whole thing about her.
I hate it when people who behave in cruel/spiteful/unhinged ways turn it around on the person they’ve hurt - the victim becomes labelled ‘unforgiving’, ‘bitter’, ‘cold-hearted’, ‘not family orientated, ‘awkward’, ‘controlling’ etc. And it’s utter bollocks. It’s done to transfer the blame and is extremely manipulative. It’s not really forgiveness when you are being forced to do it either. Forgiveness for me is accepting what the person has done, understanding it was a mistake and being able to move on from it. But in your MILs case it wasn’t just a mistake. She tried to control your wedding for a prolonged amount of time and then got people to turn against you by making them choose between her and you when she didn’t get her own way. If you let this go and then go onto have children, she will be doing this with your children in the future. She will likely do it with any event you have in the future too. She can’t be trusted.

It sounds more like she's gaslighting you than doing anything to deserve your forgiveness.

We had a similar experience with ils
DH talks to his mum but is low contact. I will never have contact with her again. You aren’t obliged to forgive anyone and in your situation I wouldn’t either

Sounds like you are way better off with her out of your life.

We dumped mil for good when she tried interfering in our wedding plans. Been over 8 years of nc. No regrets at all. Imo your dh just wants a quiet life... He should have your back unreservedly... Yabu to even contemplating making her part of your life again op.

No way in hell would I forgive that. I never understand the comments about 'what if you have children'. If you love your kids, you do not subject them to bat shit people willingly, even if they're related. Your dh is his own person, if he wants to inflict that nutter on himself, that's his choice. For your sanity, I'd leave her where she chose to be, out in the cold.

FWIW, dh and I have not seen my batshit mother in law for 16 years, bloody bliss. And ds doesn't miss her and cant remember her. Thank god.

I don’t think your MIL actually wants your forgiveness. She just wants everything to be more comfortable for her.

Forgiveness is meaningless unless the person in the wrong expresses regret and tries to put things right. Your MIL isn’t doing that. Instead, she’s minimising your experience. The flowers were just an attempt at manipulation because she’s still saying you’re stubborn.

I would not be able to forgive in these circumstances, and I would not be interested in having any kind of relationship with her.

Sorry, but no. I couldn't forgive her. Your special day, and SHE ruined it.
I'd be done with her.

I don’t think your MIL actually wants your forgiveness. She just wants everything to be more comfortable for her.

@GrumpyOldCrone has nailed it.

No I wouldn't forgive her for ruining my wedding. She sounds absolutely batshit and I wouldn't be having any contact with her at all

It is hard to forgive someone who doesn't acknowledge they have done you wrong.

I think the only way to do so is to think less of them. You acknowledge that they are not really capable of behaving any other way. Not fully morally responsible. Not a true adult in some way.

As such you could forgive them as you might forgive a dog for snarling at you but you could never be friends.

After reading why, no, I wouldn't forgive and forget.

Tbh she's just following her usual tact, she's trying to bully you into forgiving her. She doesn't sound truly remorseful. Just wants her own way again

@Aria999 has nailed it 👆

I couldn't forgive until Mil and Fil understood how much upset they caused and apologised to you and DH. No apology no forgiveness from me but I'd be happy for DH to have a relationship with them, just keep them away from me. YANBU OP.