Nursery staff comforting children

[Libmama]

Last week I returned to work from maternity leave. I work in a school nursery and we take children from the age of 3.

We currently have a little girl with Downs Syndrome and she loves to be carried around. She is none verbal but gestures and is beginning to learn some Makaton signs.

One of the senior leadership team came into nursery on Wednesday and observed the little girl with DS being carried across the room and two other members of staff sat doing activities with children on their knees.

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

I am appalled by this. In my opinion three year olds are still so so small and if they need a bit of adult comfort in the form on a cuddle or a carry etc then that is a basic need and us not being allowed to do that is not meeting that need.

Can anyone share how they’d feel about their children going to this nursery please. I’m trying to decide whether to kick off about it and stick to my instincts and what I believe in or to let it go.

The parents of the children haven’t been told about this new rule btw.

I AM being unreasonable- children at 3 don’t need physical contact to be comforted

I am NOT being unreasonable- children of 3 should absolutely be cuddled if they need it.

There’s obviously a middle ground, in all settings. It just takes a bit of common sense - touch needs to be child initiated, never without other people present and reasonable according to developmental age.

In our (small village primary) school, hugs are commonplace because all the staff and children know each other so well. While we do follow the rules above, we mostly go with whatever a child needs to comfort/regulate themselves. I teach Y3 and have a child in my class who lost her father last year. I was off sick unexpectedly this week, and she spent most of the next day superglued to my side with her face buried in my clothes. She clearly needed to reassure herself that another familiar adult wasn’t going to die. Fine by me. The other children don’t need that level of comfort, which is also fine.

EYFS is so different to formal schooling; of course the level of contact will be different. The vast majority of NT children won’t still need carrying around or to sit on laps when they hit Y6, so I can’t see why SLT should spend too much time getting their knickers in a twist over it. If it’s an issue for staff H&S, then just get some manual handling training in place.

Our HT would laugh at other heads having time to worry about this kind of stuff.

I’ve had a 10-year-old child who was poorly fall asleep in my arms (special school) as it was the only way I could get her to settle whilst we waited for her parents to be available to pick her up and she was very distressed and clearly unwell. I would sit a child who was injured on my knee until parents arrived too if they needed that comfort. Even in schools with strict no-touch policies I think in most cases there will be exceptions made for when a child is unwell or injured.

The OP however doesn’t seem to be talking about these kind of situations, she seems to be referring to a culture in her setting amongst the staff where children are frequently carried or sat on laps for activities.

There are a number of reasons to discourage this kind of culture. Safeguarding is one and in extreme cases cuddling could be seen as grooming but it can also encourage staff to display favouritism and extra attention to certain children. In maintained nursery settings ratios can be 1:13 so whilst a staff member is cuddling one happy child that is time where 12 children potentially aren’t getting any adult input. Some staff members will also seek to spend more time with the children who initiate hugs and cuddles, this can spill over into favouritism and can make children who don’t have the confidence to initiate hugs from adult staff feel left out. All the children, when happy and well, are entitled to the same amount of care and attention from the nursery staff and it is difficult to maintain that when staff are spending time sat cuddling children as it tends to be the same children who will initiate this each time.

Lots of cuddling can also effect the nursery activities and can foster laziness in some staff. Obviously it is easier to sit cuddling a couple of children whilst reading a story than to run a painting activity or start an active role-play activity with a group of boisterous children. It’s unfortunate but there are staff who work in nursery settings who will try and get out of other activities by strategically placing a child on their lap to look busy or ensure they’re not the one having to get up to deal with a toileting accident or to help tidy up.

Lots of people here have said they would want their child to have a cuddle if they wanted it and that they would be sad if their child couldn’t have it, but what about the other side of it? What if your child doesn’t initiate hugs and is the one who has to engage in activities alone because the staff are always sitting cuddling the same 3 or 4 children and not spending their time equally divided around the children?

It is sad to have to initiate policies because of the potential behaviour of staff but realistically that is why safeguarding policies and policies around touch and cuddling etc exist. Unfortunately it would be great if staff who are inclined to show favouritism or to be lazy etc were never employed, but the reality is they often are and it can be very hard to manage in a setting if there aren’t policies to help navigate this. A culture of cuddling when it’s not necessary (so obviously not talking about injuries and illness) can enable favouritism as well as creating an environment which is not centred on supporting the child to learning and develop new skills and independence. It can also create difficult dynamics with some children getting extra attention and others regularly being left to their own devices and not having an adult available to teach and bring on their learning.

Once on a school camp I was disciplined for lifting a small child over a deep puddle. The child was 6, and also my daughter...

I'd remove my child from a nursery that does that. How cold.

My son is at a mainstream nursery and the girls there are really affectionate, I've seen them ruffle his hair in a lovely way as they walk past and hold hands and to the best of my knowledge do hugs. He's a very loving and affectionate boy and I'm glad he's getting this comfort in nursery. I have zero safeguarding concerns whatsoever.

My kid is 8 and he gets cuddles from his teacher. He really needs that comfort occasionally. I'm more than happy for members of staff to give him a hug if he needs it. Sometimes he just scoots across the carpet at reading time and nudges up next. That can give him a feeling of calm and then he is OK.

As humans we need touch. It's just the way we are designed.

I wouldn't like my son going to a nursery that wouldn't let the teachers carry the children or sit them on their knee or discourages cuddling and other appropriate touch. Was at parents information evening last week and they told how the children love being given a piggy back to get to lunch for instance.

Excellent points @MolkosTeenageAngst 🙂

Errant nonsense. Ignore the advice. Except when she comes on her next visit then you can put on a good show for her.

I'd be sad if my son's nursery brought in this rule. I want him to feel a bond with the people looking after him and know people care about him if he's upset

Better tell the government, NHS, schools. colleges etc then! Every safeguarding course and every safeguarding document has "trust" as a principle. Having access to a trusted adult can actually help mitigate adverse childhood experiences and lead to better resilience as an adult.

This is in the context of a child or young person knowing who they can turn to. It isn't about parents or colleagues making judgements based on little more than good feels.

This is very much the case in sen schools. A lot of teens with sen will want to hug you and often grab you in a bear hug unexpectedl . We hug side on and are trying with varying levels of success to teach the ch and yp that you must ask people before hugging and we encourage a handshake or high five instead. It's especially important to teach pupils with sen that they have agency over their own bodies as they are very vulnerable to abuse. However, i don't see an issue with carrying the little girl if she is also regularly being encouraged to walk. It's best to sit close to a child whilst working with them than have them on your knee. Comforting an upset child especially a toddler should be allowed.

A hug when upset or hurt - yes. Sit on knee for reassurance- ok
Carrying around - no. The nursery worker could trip, and also one kid does it and before you know it they all want it.

Thing is, some of you might not agree with it but if slt decides you can't, you can't. It's safeguarding -both child and adult .

I see it more as a risk benefit analysis. If you choose to use a nursery you are putting your trust in those adults to care for your child. (Not just prevent harm but actually care for them). I fully support safeguarding measures such as DBs checks and not being alone with a child and staff being able to report concerns. But caring for young children and babies involves touch and intimate care. I trust them to change nappies, I trust them to cuddle my child if that's what my child needs at that time. Of course there is always a risk. There is a risk with any adult except me, even their father. But there's a huge benefit from contact with other humans too. You can't eliminate risk without eliminating benefit

Personally I would find a nursery that thinks giving children piggy backs is a good idea concerning. It suggests a very lax approach to risk assessing and keeping staff and children safe!

I work in a school nursery. It's not just safeguarding rules, I wouldn't carry a child for my own safety - some of our 3 year old are quite big and carrying them would cause me a back pain. Cuddles / back rubs are OK to comfort when upset but that's it. I will only carry a child to protect them from danger (eg a child last week who tried to climb over a fence, I removed him and carried him inside to stop him doing it again)

Trust me we don’t sit down for 2 hours! They are 3&4 so we change rooms/activities quite often to keep them engaged!

The majority of you are of the same view as me anyway. So thanks.

And to those of you who think I’m unreasonable, thank you as well as I can see what SLT are thinking. I’m definitely going to go and ask WHY this new rule has been brought in next week.

The majority of you are of the same view as me anyway. So thanks.

I actually think the majority are agreeing with you because they think you've been told not to cuddle or comfort the children. Which isn't the case, as all SLT have said is not to carry children and have them sat on your knee.

I think, to be fair, you have set up the question in a way that makes it sound like the obvious thing to do is agree with you.

And many people have not engaged with the nuances of the provision of physical contact within a childcare setting.

Well I definitely didn’t mean to do that.

We can still cuddle them but whilst sat next to them.

My main concern about it was if they were upset we no longer can sit them on our knee for a cuddle and a story which is often the quickest way to settle them if they have been not wanting to leave parents in the morning.
If they hurt themselves my instinct is to pick them up and carry them to a chair whilst I sort a wet paper towel/ cold compress.

Maybe my mummy side needs to be completely left at home. That’s probably my struggle as I’m very maternal by nature. I’ll have to work on that.

I remember picking up my DS early from school nursery because he was under the weather, he was being cuddled on his keyworker's lap. It was so lovely to see him being comforted when I wasn't there to comfort him.

Would I feel uncomfortable if it was a male member of staff? Honestly, yes because although NAMALT the male sex have earned the reputation they have. I would avoid a setting with male staff for very young DCs.

Paediatric worker here , little ones with Downs Syndrome often have reduced muscle tone and hyper mobility the little one may rely on being carried to be able to join in with her pals. She may also have developmental need requiring more physical contact than other children of her age. It's a shit show of a day when you can't properly cuddle a child, they need it for their emotional development. I'll be damned if I have to follow guidance and a certain method on how it should be done. Each child's need is different blanket policies are also illegal when challenged in courts.

Omg what is the world coming to when little children can't have a cuddle or sit on a caregivers knee