Nursery staff comforting children

[Libmama]

Last week I returned to work from maternity leave. I work in a school nursery and we take children from the age of 3.

We currently have a little girl with Downs Syndrome and she loves to be carried around. She is none verbal but gestures and is beginning to learn some Makaton signs.

One of the senior leadership team came into nursery on Wednesday and observed the little girl with DS being carried across the room and two other members of staff sat doing activities with children on their knees.

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

I am appalled by this. In my opinion three year olds are still so so small and if they need a bit of adult comfort in the form on a cuddle or a carry etc then that is a basic need and us not being allowed to do that is not meeting that need.

Can anyone share how they’d feel about their children going to this nursery please. I’m trying to decide whether to kick off about it and stick to my instincts and what I believe in or to let it go.

The parents of the children haven’t been told about this new rule btw.

I AM being unreasonable- children at 3 don’t need physical contact to be comforted

I am NOT being unreasonable- children of 3 should absolutely be cuddled if they need it.

I was a trustee of a pre-school some years ago and recall that the Pre-School Learning Alliance used to publish guidance. iirc, for instance, hugging a child was ok, but not full-frontal. One should hug to the side with closed legs. Sitting on a knee doesn't sound appropriate any more

Oh dear god!

How does an Early Years worker change them when they've had an accident? Do they have to do it from the side with child's legs closed then?

School nurseries can be just as cuddly. My son fell asleep in the teacher's arms last week at his preschool when he was a bit under the weather. And my older son was sitting on his teacher's lap in assembly the other day (reception). I think it's a sad world when ordinary human contact is taboo. I appreciate the need for not being alone with a child etc but stopping all contact risks causing more harm than it prevents.

The OP did not say no cuddles. Just no sitting on knees and carrying but everyone is focusing on no cuddling.

If you take that attitude we may as well all go and lie in a coffin all day in preparation for being dead.

Children need to be given the appropriate care for the stage they are currently at - not "prepared" for something that is 30% of their lifetime away in the future.

A full day is a long time for a preschool child. There's plenty of time for them to be doing all this learning as well as have a cuddle now and again.

School nurseries can be just as cuddly. My son fell asleep in the teacher's arms last week at his preschool when he was a bit under the weather.

Thats my experience of school nursery too, and I’m in Scotland so my child would have been 5 at the time. I’m so grateful for staff who care for and nurtured my little ones, and I didn’t see them remotely struggling to sit, work independently or self regulate in primary school as a result.

It isn't though. It's there because some jobsworth has decided to gold plate the recommendations. It's a real "computer says no" type policy not based on any evidence

That doesn't surprise me... I'm of the opinion that appropriate care for the stage the child is at helps them prepare for the next stage more effectively than pushing them to a stage they aren't developmentally ready for. Childcare should be child led as far as possible, not dictated by extreme risk avoidant policies.

All this 'safeguarding' around today. Yes there are dodgy people out there, but very few would get to work in a nursery. (I read about the Australian case, but that's extremely rare).
It's treating all staff as potential abusers, and it's sad.
If a young child needs a hug, they should get one. Touch is an important sense and we shouldn't be criminalizing it. What a sad, messed up world we live in.

Exactly. Nowhere has the OP said cuddles and comfort have been banned, so i'm not sure why so many are focusing on this.

Have you got any background in teaching or early years education? So many children arrive at school in reception with none of the skills they need to actually learn effectively. There will likely not be high teacher-child ratios in a reception classroom. Children do need to start learning skills in readiness for school before they actually get there and many children will not be having opportunities to learn the skills they need at home. If you don’t think children in nursery schools (which usually do half days with the children only there for 3 hours a day/ 15 hours a week) should be taught the skills they will need for school the following September when do you think these skills should be taught?

I am not saying close touch has no place in nursery classrooms, but cuddling children during activities is usually not necessary. Child: staff ratios in maintained nurseries can be as low as 1:13 so whilst a staff member is giving one child an extended cuddle on their lap that means 12 other children may not be getting any adult input as that staff members input is on the child they are cuddling. As I said, a quick hug before moving the child to your side is reasonable but children don’t need to be sat on laps for extended cuddling sessions during activities if they are otherwise happy and regulated.

What a ridiculous post.

It is the care worker whose legs are closed and to the side, not the child's.

There are guidelines around changing - including, for instance, not keeping a changing table in a private area.

There is zero need for a child of 3 to be sat on a lap.

And again I'm really not so sure people would be so happy if it were a bloke whose lap was being sat on.

No one is criminalising touch.

It's a funny thing about safeguarding. Everybody wants their children to be safe, but no one wants to believe that guidelines have evolved on the back of actual situations. It never happens. We're all trustworthy. The bad people are over there and there's hardly any of them. (And hopefully they're doing it to someone else...)

Children are supposed to be kept safe on good thoughts and rainbow dust.

You sound like fantastic, caring staff. I’m so sorry your management has just bulldozed you all like this.

I wouldn't have kept my daughter in a nursery that brought in that rule but it would also have been a question of accessibility. My daughter couldn't walk independently at 3 so needed carried to join in forest as adventures and also in the case of fire evacuations, it was written in her risk assessment that she needed to be carried.

When I collect my 3 year old from pre school she is usually in the arms of a teacher, or sprawled across their lap. They're children! They need love and comfort in order to grow up happy and secure.

What a berserk world view.

It would break my heart if my kids were upset and the nursery staff didn't give them a cuddle! I'd definitely move my kids from this nursery.

Exactly! People seem to just think "won't happen to my kid" all the staff seem lovely. Of course they do. A DBS check isn't some sort of magic forcefield. It's the Swiss cheese model - have the DBS check but also have rules like - not sitting on laps, no one being changed on their own.

There isn't. Not at a nursery.

It may be guidance, but it's harsh and unnecessary.

When DS was 4 he came down with a flu type virus. When I got to nursery to collect him I found his nursery teacher sat on the floor with him straddling her legs, head on chest asleep. Her singing to him and rubbing his back. It really really comforted me. At school, DS fell off the climbing frame - a bloody nose and 2 black eyes. When I collected him he was sat on the deputy heads knee, blood all over her and him, tear streaked face and being hugged by a teacher he loves. Again, I found it heartwarming and necessary.

Not true, the child will get down when they are ready. If they want to stay there for an hour or 2 that is fine and won't stop them settling. Of course the staff member can encourage them by showing them toys etc but no need to "withdraw".

If the child has to get down to let the staff member do something else they need to do that's a different matter but don't pretend it's because that is what is best for that individual child

The staff member isn't there for the individual child. The staff member is there as part of a ratio. It's a social setting. All children should get 1:1 attention sometimes, but two hours of one child sitting on a staff member's knee is to the detriment of the rest of the organisation (and that's without my wondering why this staff member has the opportunity to sit down for two full hours).

carrying children certainly should not be happening. A friend of mine has the opposite issue - she is expected to carry a child with behaviour problems around much of the day, because it calms him down - but she refuses. Her union backs her 100%, and has specified this is inappropriate behaviour management, and unsafe - one adult has already fallen while carrying this child, and was hurt