Nursery staff comforting children

[Libmama]

Last week I returned to work from maternity leave. I work in a school nursery and we take children from the age of 3.

We currently have a little girl with Downs Syndrome and she loves to be carried around. She is none verbal but gestures and is beginning to learn some Makaton signs.

One of the senior leadership team came into nursery on Wednesday and observed the little girl with DS being carried across the room and two other members of staff sat doing activities with children on their knees.

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

I am appalled by this. In my opinion three year olds are still so so small and if they need a bit of adult comfort in the form on a cuddle or a carry etc then that is a basic need and us not being allowed to do that is not meeting that need.

Can anyone share how they’d feel about their children going to this nursery please. I’m trying to decide whether to kick off about it and stick to my instincts and what I believe in or to let it go.

The parents of the children haven’t been told about this new rule btw.

I AM being unreasonable- children at 3 don’t need physical contact to be comforted

I am NOT being unreasonable- children of 3 should absolutely be cuddled if they need it.

Did all little ones used to get carried around or just this particular little one? Is it detrimental to their development in any way to be carried around? Just wondering if that may be how it’s been viewed and instead of directly addressing that, the management have just gone in with a blanket ban as it feels a bit tricky to address the individual situation. Could parents have suggested they didn’t like it? That they wanted them to have more independence?

By the way I have a three year old and would move him from a setting which wouldn’t offer comfort or cuddles.

But by keeping him sat on her knee she is actually stopping him from being able to settle properly. She needs to be retreating from him gradually to help him settle.

the child who was otherwise happy you could have easily given a quick hug and sat her next to you.

By the way I have a three year old and would move him from a setting which wouldn’t offer comfort or cuddles

But OPs setting hasn't banned comfort and cuddles. The staff have been told not to carry children or have them on their laps. There are plenty of other ways to offer comfort and calm an upset child.

You’ve perceived me as saying that. There are many safe guarding methods that can be employed. Telling your staff not to touch children is basically saying that all your other safeguarding methods aren’t fit for purpose. It’s a lazy rule there to protect the setting firstly, then the staff.

When any new rule us introduced your first thought should be ‘how does that benefit the child?’ You would say it benefits the child by ensuring a pedophile can’t abuse them. I would say that your hiring policy should ensure you don’t employ pedophiles, so once we’ve eradicated that potential we are then asking how not giving physical comfort to a 3 child old advantages them? And I would say…… it doesn’t.

2 child care workers have just recently been arrested here in Australia. They under went the necessary checks to work in early childhood.

"Police allege the offences were committed between 2007 and 2022 while Mr Griffith was working in 10 childcare centres in Brisbane, one in Sydney and one overseas."

I work in early childhood.

Yanbu.

I remember picking up DS from nursery and a staff member had a little boy cuddled on her lap looking at a book. He giggled at something and she kissed him on the head. It was such a lovely scene and a natural, motherly reaction from her that it made me feel really reassured that I'd made a good choice of nursery. Small children need contact and affection.

And how would you have felt if that had been a bloke?

SLT member correct. Haven’t you done any safeguarding training?!

I believe I’ve read that story and there were very clear issues with agencies ignoring reports from staff and parents. Wasn’t the police also implicated for ignoring reports?

Abuse is massively more likely to come from a “trusted adult” so that’s part of the problem.

No one has said 'don't touch the children.'

It's not new guidance.

Don't hire paedophiles. Simples. No one has ever thought of that.

I have a child with Down syndrome around the same age at a nursery and it is slightly different where a child has delays. Partly kids with DS are often tiny so carrying might be less of an issue from a health and safety perspective, but also lots of kids with DS get tired more easily than their peers as moving around is a lot more effort for all sort of reasons. I know my child gets carried sometimes, because if he doesn’t he can get too tired to engage properly in activities. He’s also shit at following instructions (because he’s a bit deaf and a bit delayed… and very stubborn) so sometimes, frankly, you just have to pick him up and move him (I’d expect them to explain to him what they’re doing if they did this).

Re comforting, he wouldn’t understand verbal comforting in the same way another 3yo would - he might sign he’s sad but a reasonable adaptation would be that staff don’t rely on him hearing, understanding and emotionally regulating without the support of a cuddle when he’s upset.

Of course small children should be cuddled when upset.

However staff should not be carrying a child around all day. It’s bad for their backs, and isn’t teaching the child to settle. If it carry’s on where do you draw the line? 5 years? 7 years?

A specific child regularly sitting on lap is clearly not in line with safeguarding standards. I do t think that’s appropriate - it sets the school up for issues later.

Staff do need to bear in mind health and safety when it comes to lifting anything, and sitting on knees for children who are potty training is a risky business. I've been caught out in the past!

The word "nursery" is an issue here. A nursery attached to a school means 3 year olds are "at school" and need to "grow up", whereas 3 year olds in a day nursery are in a "caring" setting and need hugs and warmth. The expectations and differentiation has always been a bit foggy.

I think this is quite common for school nurseries from my work and personal experience. And I wouldn’t be surprised by this at a school nursery as a parent. My DS goes to a private, very nurturing nursery where the kids sit on laps, get proper cuddles, heck some of the kids even nap on the staff laps. Almost all the staff there are Mums, I know some of their families, it’s just a very different feel.

Can't help you there sorry, I don't have the time to pull up all the news articles on the case to re-read them for you.

I worked in a unit that was both nursery and reception children. I carried and hugged plenty of times, but it was largely child led. You have a natural instinct to respond when a child leans into you and is distressed. The times I initiated the contact was when they were in physical danger and had to be moved (going to fall from the climbing frame etc), or were already upset about something so I wiped their tears and rubbed their shoulder/ head, sometimes held their hand for a while. PP are right that some children with additional needs seek more of what they're used to at home so can be very cuddly with you. Every child is different and it's usually obvious what is and isn't appropriate.

I would have no problem with nursery staff comforting my child like this. I can understand some things go too far but picking up or a quick hug is absolutely acceptable in my eyes.

I used to work in a preschool and we weren't allowed to carry or have them on our laps. I was told not to sit with one child to help her write her name as she would try to sit on my lap. It was awful, felt so unnatural.

I support the rules.

I would say a new boy on his first day who is very unsettled is a reasonable reason to be sitting on a staff members knee. As a teacher I would be happy with that happening in my EYFS clasroom.

The little girl who came and sat on your knee to do an activity because she ‘wanted to’ and you ‘didn’t mind’ was not a reasonable reason. She wasn’t upset or unregulated and she needs to learn that you don’t sit on adult’s laps to do activities in school. That would have been a perfect teaching moment to direct her to sit on a chair at the table and to begin to learn that the boundaries/ expectations at school are different to the boundaries/ expectations at home or in other childcare settings. She may have wanted to sit there, but children can’t always do what they want in school and if they’re attending a school nursery they need to start to learn the boundaries. I wouldn’t be happy if the TAs in my class were having children sit on their laps during table top activities rather than supporting students to learn to sit at the table on chairs. Some children won’t be learning to sit at a table to focus on an activity at home and it’s something they will need to be able to do independently in reception so nursery staff should be encouraging the skill, not letting children sit on laps because ‘they want to.’ The bottom line is a nursery school is an education setting and the focus should be on teaching skills the child will need in school and fostering independence. The issue is that by sitting a child on your knee they’re not learning to sit on a chair, they’re not learning to self regulate their body and behaviour, they’re not learning to independently focus their attention on the activity and they’re not learning to interact with their peers in the same way as their focus is obviously on the adult they’re sat with. These are skills they can’t learn at home so it’s important nursery starts to focus on them.

I would remove my child from a nursery with this policy because it's awful and harmful and is complete not age appropriate

Same as my DD! She adores the staff at her nursery and runs in to hug them every morning.

My child was carried a lot for the first few weeks as he wasn’t able to walk on different surfaces till he was used to the environment so to avoid meltdowns his setting actually had baby wearing training so they could safely carry him and any other children in structured carriers

Course they need cuddles and affection 🥲🥲🥲

What a stupid rule

I would leave and find a new living nursery