Nursery staff comforting children

[Libmama]

Last week I returned to work from maternity leave. I work in a school nursery and we take children from the age of 3.

We currently have a little girl with Downs Syndrome and she loves to be carried around. She is none verbal but gestures and is beginning to learn some Makaton signs.

One of the senior leadership team came into nursery on Wednesday and observed the little girl with DS being carried across the room and two other members of staff sat doing activities with children on their knees.

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

I am appalled by this. In my opinion three year olds are still so so small and if they need a bit of adult comfort in the form on a cuddle or a carry etc then that is a basic need and us not being allowed to do that is not meeting that need.

Can anyone share how they’d feel about their children going to this nursery please. I’m trying to decide whether to kick off about it and stick to my instincts and what I believe in or to let it go.

The parents of the children haven’t been told about this new rule btw.

I AM being unreasonable- children at 3 don’t need physical contact to be comforted

I am NOT being unreasonable- children of 3 should absolutely be cuddled if they need it.

A cuddle to comfort is ok, but I think being carried around or sitting on the laps isn't. How is this preparation for further schooling?

And you would be ok if this was a male teacher as well? You see now why these rules are there to cover and protect everyone?

Exactly this. I know this means I'm sexist but if I saw my LO sitting on one of the male carer's laps at nursery I would be uneasy.

And I wouldn't want any nursery worker kissing them

I think carrying is a different issue and I would only carry a child due to injury or emergency.

It’s fairly easy to know which children enjoy/seek comfort when you are working with a class. I follow the lead of the child, if they want a cuddle or to sit on my lap then that’s fine. I know some children aren’t comfortable with that and just want to talk to me.

Completely agree with this. For a child with disabilities there’s often not a binary “walk” or “can’t walk”. There might be “tired” “frightened” “wobbly” “using mental energy for something else” “in pain” “using hypotonia as a tool and so going really floppy to avoid doing something less fun than the current task” “working out new surface” etc etc. My child can and does walk but has a special pram from wheelchair services for when they’re moving long distances - it doesn’t help if he needs a bit of support getting across the classroom for whatever reason.

Are all of the children carried around or just the child with Down syndrome?

I’m not sure what the relevance of her having Down syndrome or being non-verbal is but I can’t help feeling that she is treated different by staff members, which isn’t fair to her or the other kids.

I think it’s absolutely fine to give cuddles and carry around when needed but these are 3yo and not babies who can’t walk and shouldn’t be carried around for no reason.

The same with sitting on your lap, it’s fine if it needs to be done for comfort but it’s not something I would encourage because it’s hard to look after 10+ kids if you’re sat down with them on your lap all of the time.

Definitely give cuddles and affection but try to find a way to give affection without needing to carry or sit on your lap.
Else the children who cry and get upset are going to get affection, whilst the others won’t and you’ll make a rod for your own back.

May as well get a robot to sit in there and supervise them then.

This is so sad, of course a three year old still requires cuddles and comforting, particularly if they feel out of sorts in a new environment.

@Itsnotchristmasyet the reason you might treat a child with Down syndrome differently is because they likely have different needs. The idea that you wouldn’t is actually quite ableist as it would mean you’d meet the needs of most children in the class but not the child with disabilities. There are lots of reasons why a kid with DS might need to be carried but the most common one is they tend to be far more floppy than typical children so have to put a lot more work into walking, and therefore tire very easily. The child probably also learnt to walk later and so is just less proficient at it at this age. At three she’ll likely have funding which is specifically there so the nursery can treat her differently, by having enhanced ratios for her. Finally she’s also probably lighter (kids with DS are mapped on a different growth chart to typically developing children as they’re so often so much smaller) so it’d be like carrying a far younger child.

When DS was at nursery it was full of cuddles, but all side cuddles, and you often see TAs slightly turned while hugging 3 or 4 at once at hometime. Same in reception class. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't think sitting on knees is necessary for comfort when a hug is fine. A few kids needed peeling away from parents in reception though, and they were definitely carried briefly. One boy was carried half the way back from a school trip, because he wouldn't walk, so I took the teacher's bag and we split out her walking kids amongst other parents. We couldn't leave him, nor have 26 other hungry kids wait for him to work through his tiredness, and she couldn't leave the kids just with parents (TA had taken child with physical needs and two tired ones on the bus already). So I do agree that side hugs is really enough, but I don't think a blanket rule on not carrying could work. Read the specific policy though and challenge exceptions in the text so it's possible to follow and effective for all.

As a KS1 teacher we were taught to do the ‘side cuddle’ thing, never full on, and would never have children on our laps. Also teachers should not be initiating cuddles.

I know with nursery age children it’s a bit different but I do think that carrying a child around is a bit inappropriate (she also needs to learn not to expect this at school - might as well condition her out of it now…)

@Ace56 i don’t think you can condition her out of having a disability!!

As I said, carrying a child around if they need to be carried is absolutely fine.

Carrying a child and treating them differently simply because they have Down syndrome or are non-verbal is offensive.

I work with several children with Down syndrome or are non-verbal but they would not want anyone treating them any differently.

The Down syndrome may be relevant as to why the child needs carrying more, which is fine but the fact they are non-verbal is absolutely no relevant.
So I’m not sure why that was mentioned.

Some people do treat children with disabilities differently and not because they require it.
They think they’re being nice but it can quickly become quite offensive.

I work in a similar setting and we are certainly not allowed carry children that age partly to do manual handling guidelines. It also goes against our policy that we are there to help prepare children develop on their own, to become self sufficient, to promote self regulation, self care etc. At first I found this hard, I started as a career change in my 40s, already a mother, and I was told I was too affectionate with the children and I wasn't there to be a substitute parent. I did notice the children were coming to me whining about nothing and attention seeking, but with other staff they just got on with it. They also would ignore instructions from me but listen to my colleagues.

With a few years more experience under my belt, i have to agree with the policy of reduced physical contact. The biggest gift you can give a child is teaching them to regulate themselves, otherwise they become overwhelmed when they don't have an adult there and will find school really hard to cope with. When a child cries out in anger or temper like if they don't like another child playing nearby they are told to stop it immediately, and go calm down, (in a very gentle manner) and most children can do this on their own. They are given a cuddle and praised when calmer. A SEN child needs more support, obviously, so we might sit beside them or hold their hand while they learn to calm themselves down, maybe getting them to work on breathing slowly or counting etc, we are helping them learn strategies to control their emotions. Children who can't control their emotions will hit out at other kids and be regarded as a naughty kid when they simply haven't learned to self regulate. This is unfair on them and obviously the children who are being hit for no reason. If a child is is whining cos they miss Mum / Dad they might get a little hug but we don't linger, otherwise they spend the whole day following you around whining. If they are hurt, absolutely a hug and lots of cuddles but if the child is repeatedly exaggerating hurt for attention seeking we would reduce this and just tell them that they everything is ok.

My 6 year old fell over at school a few weeks ago and the accident form said the treatment received was "cold compress and tlc." His ta came to tell me about it and said he was ok after some cuddles. I'm so glad my DC go to a school that are happy to provide that and this is in year 1, not nursery!!

Out of interest, when does it stop being acceptable to carry? Obviously babies out of necessity will sometimes need to be carried. Is there a particular age when it's considered to be no longer appropriate?

DS just started reception in September and in the first few weeks I saw numerous of his classmates being cuddled/carried when they were upset at the start of the school day. I don't really see any issue.

If I ever got a wind of my chosen nursery having this horrific rule imposed by SLT, I would withdraw my child instantly and talk loudly about it to deter others from trusting their child with a place such as that.

@Chipsahoyagain yes

Can someone please show me where OP has said her nursery have banned cuddles and comfort?

OP said

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

You can comfort and cuddle a child without carrying them or having them sat on your knee.

3 year old with special needs wl be likely
emotionally delayed as well even neurotypical 3yr old needs extra cuddles etc..YANBU

I can't personally answer this. The setting I was involved with was licensed for age 2+. Unless there were additional needs (and there was one wheelchair user), you would expect infants to be mobile by then. I don't know much about a setting licensed for 0+, except the ratios. My understanding is that settings with babies often have certain 'rooms', perhaps entered by reaching particular developmental targets, so the guidance may well change by 'room'.

You can hug them while sitting next to them though. At three they should be walking indoors and not being carried

If they are hurt, absolutely a hug and lots of cuddles but if the child is repeatedly exaggerating hurt for attention seeking we would reduce this and just tell them that they everything is ok.

Surely if you think a child is seeking attention you try to work out what they need you to pay attention to? Not just send them away with an “everything is ok”, if they felt everything was ok they wouldn’t need your attention.

It’s also worth remembering we learn self regulation through attuned relationships with adults who can self regulate - in small children self regulation is developed through co-regulation, not by being given a breathing exercise. There’s such a danger of losing the relational aspects of being human, which for young children includes physical touch and comfort.

I can see why no carrying around once / where mobile (risk of a trip, manual handling) but small children need physical reassurance.

Well no, but do you think she’s still going to be carried around in Reception/Year 1? It’s not possible. She needs to learn at some point not to expect this at school, so might as well start learning in nursery rather than the staff just picking her up every time she wants it!