Nursery staff comforting children

[Libmama]

Last week I returned to work from maternity leave. I work in a school nursery and we take children from the age of 3.

We currently have a little girl with Downs Syndrome and she loves to be carried around. She is none verbal but gestures and is beginning to learn some Makaton signs.

One of the senior leadership team came into nursery on Wednesday and observed the little girl with DS being carried across the room and two other members of staff sat doing activities with children on their knees.

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

I am appalled by this. In my opinion three year olds are still so so small and if they need a bit of adult comfort in the form on a cuddle or a carry etc then that is a basic need and us not being allowed to do that is not meeting that need.

Can anyone share how they’d feel about their children going to this nursery please. I’m trying to decide whether to kick off about it and stick to my instincts and what I believe in or to let it go.

The parents of the children haven’t been told about this new rule btw.

I AM being unreasonable- children at 3 don’t need physical contact to be comforted

I am NOT being unreasonable- children of 3 should absolutely be cuddled if they need it.

Even though the policy is there to safeguard your child?

A trusted adult is someone who has undergone the necessary checks to be working in a childcare setting.

The policy will be primarily there to safeguard the adults and childcare setting.

I remember my little girl with SEN being carried around at 2/3. I was very grateful they took such good care of her, brought her to activities and made her feel special. They were good people.

I agree with that BrokenButNotFinished. That is for the adults to thrash out and organise though, young children don't understand any of it. I also think there is a distinction between giving immediate physical comfort to a distressed child like in my example or when they hurt themselves, and cuddling up/sitting on knees etc at random times of the day. And thank goodness safeguarding is taken so seriously now, but hopefully most places find a balance which doesn't sacrifice too much human instinct.

Because not all trusted adults can be trusted and not all adults are trusted.

Have the school given an explanation for the change? I would ask before kicking off.

I have two autistic children, both needed cuddles and physical reassurance at that age, at nursery and childminder.

I would remove them if the CM/nursery staff couldn’t cuddle them.

My nanny now cuddles them both too (they’re 5&10).

I agree with you 100%

I guess in a school nursery it would be stricter. Then again I was considering a certain nursery for my child but my neighbour used to work at the same site and said that workers are discouraged from cuddling babies as it ‘spoils them ‘ so that was a hard no from me.
As they get older I think of course they should still receive cuddles but agree that they need to get used to not being carried around or sitting on laps for too long. There is a really cuddly staff member at my kids nursery but she doesn’t let the older ones sit on her lap too long or carry them around as it hurts her physically as some of these kids are huge.

Right. So potentially just someone who hasn't been caught yet...? I'm known a self-confessed 'minor attracted' person (a paedophile in old money) pass all those checks, work in a school and single out a boy with whom he was 'in love'.

Oh I'd be so sad if our nursery was like that! My 2 older boys are at school now but they had such a wonderful relationship with pretty much all the staff at their nursery. They are both autistic if it makes a difference. But they were always getting cuddles, being carried, playing tickle games, sitting on laps. They loved it and even now that my middle son has started school, he often says he misses his keyworkers cuddles. My youngest will be going to the same nursery next year and I very much hope that they're still the same!

Not the reason to blanket ban comforting preschool children. It’s so easy to make these policies that damage children, because there is a very small chance you may have hired a pedophile. Get your hiring policies correct and comfort tiny children who aren’t with their primary care givers.

Again. Perhaps people should read more serious case reviews...

I'm wondering if everyone who is OK with this only has female staff looking after their kids and perhaps I need to check my bias as my child has mixed sex carers

Children being carried by adults is problematic for several reasons, depending on the size/age/developmental stage of the child.

There is a danger of injury to both child and adult on the case of a fall or trip whilst holding a child. I've seen it happen several times.

There is a danger of injury to the adult from carrying a child who then twists or wriggles to try and get down. Again, I've known this to happen, causing a back injury to a member of staff.

Carrying a child from one place to another can be seen as a deprivation of liberty/denial of consent - taking away a child's choice. Settings I've worked in have been told by all outside agencies not to carry a child, rather than support and encourage them to walk. It's often easier/quicker as an adult, to simply pick up a child at the end of some time outside, when the child seems unwilling to follow an instruction. However, unless it's a safety issue (fire, intruder etc) staff need to think of different strategies to encourage a child from one area or activity to another.

I've been head-butted by a child before now when I picked them up to bring them inside. They didn't seem unwilling when I first approached them, but quickly changed their mind when they realised that they were being brought inside.

I absolutely believe that children need physical comfort, and would not leave my child in a setting which did not offer physical comfort.

However, apart from a time when a child is in danger, there are incredibly few reasons to be carrying a mobile child around.

It's balance of harm though isn't it ?

Children need hugs and physical contact and affection - young children withheld that when needed are harmed

In extreme cases in the early years it causes harm that can never be overcome leading to difficulties in forming relationships and developing trust

Children are with the nursery for a significant part of the day- withholding cuddles just in case seems wrong balance to me

im not going to spend my Sunday morning arguing with you about ‘what ifs’. There’s a chance there are criminals in every profession. That’s why you have a robust hiring system with governmental checks alongside safeguarding measures within the setting.

This childcare setting has decided that their staff can’t adequately comfort 3 year olds. As a parent I would like to have been told about that policy. I suspect parents don’t know that their 3 year old can no longer be picked up or placed on a knee. I have 5 year olds questioning me as to why they can’t sit on my lap. A 3 year old has no hope in hell of figuring that out. They will just perceive that as a rejection.

i was a nanny/nursery nurse before I became a SAHM and I wouldn’t listen to their ‘advice’ children that age need close contact sometimes and as a parent I want my child to be happy at nursery. I think the SLT gave forgotten you are a nursery and not a school! You need to all band together about this!

Sorry just to clarify, the children sitting on the staff members knees…. One was a new boy that day who was very unsettled and didn’t want to leave the staff member who had taken him from his dads side. The other one was sat on my knee, and she just came and sat down on my knee as we were playing a fishing game.

I didn’t mind her sitting there. She obviously wanted to sit there… I just feel if they are seeking comfort in that way what’s the issue

I wouldn't send my child to the nursery that rules out cuddles. DS is nearly 11 and still loves hugs, to sit on knees etc... at 3 years old he'd have been distraught. I'm assuming staff aren't forcing the kids into their knees, what about a novel idea of letting the child decide what level of comfort they need? Makes me really sad.

Even for children with special needs - actually even more so - boundaries do need to be clear and in place and suitable methods found. Whereas it may be ok for a 4 year old to spend the day sat on the knee of staff members it becomes less appropriate by the time they are 7/10/15 etc. Learning safe behaviour for that setting makes the boundaries clear for everyone.

I think that's a big part of it, tbh: people imagine a nice group of ladies looking after their children. When I was involved with a pre-school, we used to have a chap employed semi-regularly, when things were quiet in his (seasonal) main work. No problem with him and he was very popular with the children (partly on account of his interesting hair), but more than once I had parents sidle up to me at pick up or drop off saying that they didn't think a man should be employed in this line of business.

The serious case review into sexual abuse at Little Ted's Nursery in Plymouth specifically recommended training for staff in recognising signs of sexual abuse in females.

We've had a no touch policy in childcare and primary/high school for years.
I was working in childcare 15/16 years ago, and it was in then.
If a child wanted a hug, we had to have another worker with us, and there were some childcare centres with cameras.
I was did after-school hours care and that was a no touch occasionally some of the kids would want a hug (mainly kindergartens so first year of school age 4/5 years old) and we weren't allowed too we had to get to their level and talk it out but they weren't allowed on us or any cuddles if injured we would help with getting a bandage/icepack and we would have to have another staff member watch us and report it in the book and then our director would call us later and ask if we thought that was the most appropriate method and what we had to do and the director would ask the other staff member to see if our story aligned together it was a bit stressful sometimes but it's what has to be done.
I'm in Australia.

I actually think the sitting on knees is inappropriate. I would gently move a child off my knee, so they are still close but not physically on me. Hugs and sitting on knees are 2 different things in my opinion.

But you've said upthread that the safeguarding measures can be ignored, because they are for the benefit of the organisation not the child. 🤷‍♀️

No one is talking about withholding comfort from small children. It's just not a free-for-all.