Nursery staff comforting children

[Libmama]

Last week I returned to work from maternity leave. I work in a school nursery and we take children from the age of 3.

We currently have a little girl with Downs Syndrome and she loves to be carried around. She is none verbal but gestures and is beginning to learn some Makaton signs.

One of the senior leadership team came into nursery on Wednesday and observed the little girl with DS being carried across the room and two other members of staff sat doing activities with children on their knees.

We have now been told under no circumstances are we to carry any children or have them on our knee. Instead if they are upset we have to sit them next to us on the floor and comfort them.

I am appalled by this. In my opinion three year olds are still so so small and if they need a bit of adult comfort in the form on a cuddle or a carry etc then that is a basic need and us not being allowed to do that is not meeting that need.

Can anyone share how they’d feel about their children going to this nursery please. I’m trying to decide whether to kick off about it and stick to my instincts and what I believe in or to let it go.

The parents of the children haven’t been told about this new rule btw.

I AM being unreasonable- children at 3 don’t need physical contact to be comforted

I am NOT being unreasonable- children of 3 should absolutely be cuddled if they need it.

This is why a member of SLT should either be experienced in early years or work in early years! It's a specialism for a reason!

No they don’t all get carried around. The only time they’re ever carried is if they come in upset and parents are carrying them and pass them to us to be carried (iyswim) or possibly if they’ve hurt themselves and we may carry them to a chair to sit on whilst we get cold compresses etc.

The little girl with Downs does get carried slightly more but she only learnt to walk over the summer (she’s 3.5 now) so I think she’s just used to being carried. She comes to us and holds her arms up to be picked up. Probably 80-90% of the time we wouldn’t pick her up but if it’s near the end of the day and she’s tired I probably would be a bit more lenient. Plus if the outside door is open if parents are coming in and collecting j tend to have hold of her as she likes to run! So that’s for her own safety. Mum and Dad don’t have a problem with us doing this.

And the only reason I mentioned she’s none verbal is because she tends to gesture to us that she wants picking up by putting her arms in the air rather than asking.
She is mainly treated the same as the others but she has funding for a 1:1 so of course sometimes she gets a bit more help with things than the other children. She still wears a nappy and is more toddler like so needs more help with dressing/shoes/coats/fine motor than the others.

I teach reception, and when one of those needs a cuddle, they get one!

Only last week, I found one of my little boys crying after lunch with his head on a chair. I asked if he wanted a cuddle, he nodded and crawled into my lap. We sat there for probably 10 minutes, just silently cuddling. When he was ready, he got down and went off to play - all better!
Frankly, if SLT didn't like it, I'd tell them to a) kiss my arse, and b) look at the research.
I'd have been really sad, as a parent, if my own children hadn't been able to get a cuddle from their teacher when they needed one.

I would want my 3year old to be comforted in whatever way works best. Happy for them to be cuddled by a familiar adult such as nursery staff.

My daughter is 2 years old, non verbal and she has Autism.

The staff always give her cuddles and sometimes kiss her forehead which she always smiles at. She doesn’t do well during circle time as she can’t stay seated so one member of staff will usually sit on a chair on the carpet let DD stand next to them.

I don’t think it’s an issue that children can’t sit on laps as there’s definitely still other ways to comfort them. I don’t understand why they can’t be picked up though? Have they actually given any reasoning to why they’ve changed the rules? Has a parent complained or anything like that? Seems really random to just switch things up

No, no parent has complained. They just feel it’s not good for health and safety to carry 3 year olds around. Which I do understand, but I feel I wouldn’t be doing my job properly if I put my needs ahead of a crying child.
As a parent of 3 myself I’d be really upset thinking they’d hurt themselves in the playground and they weren’t picked up and cuddled as I would do at home.
When they start reception then fine, even though I think I’d still be that type of person even with older kids.

Not cuddling children is a safe guarding issue is another reason I'm home educating my child.

Absolutely horrendous world we live in that we put kids/babies to state mandated childcare, breaking up the family home dynamic. No wonder children are growing up with serious trauma, self harm and disoragnised attachment styles.

I absolutely didn't have children to give them to someone else to bring up.

I don't care if everyone thinks this comment is controversial. It needs saying

The problem is it sounds like staff are not only picking up and carrying children in response to them being hurt/ upset and not only letting children sit on laps when they are upset and need comforting.

It sounds like the culture in your setting is that children can be picked up and cuddled just because they ‘want to’ and in situations where it isn’t necessary, such as the example you gave with having a child on your lap at the table to play a fishing game. The boundaries in an educational school-type setting are not the same as they are at home and nor should they be.

Using physical contact to comfort and support a hurt/ upset child is okay, so long as you have their consent. Using physical contact just because the child fancies a cuddle is not, it blurs the boundaries around what is and is not appropriate in a school setting. Sitting on a chair at the table is the expected behaviour in a school setting, not sitting on an adult’s lap to work. Walking around the classroom is the expected behaviour in a school setting, not being carried (and equally not running or climbing about etc), if a child has difficulties with mobility then appropriate alternative such as something for the child to push or furniture they can hold onto as they move for support might be used but carrying across the classroom really isn’t the answer.

I just find it really harsh to tell them they’re not allowed to sit on my knee to play a game or read a story. They’re only so little.

There are no chairs and tables in nursery, only the ones at the writing table or the craft table. The rest of the time we play on the floor at their level.

So it is different to school completely.

You definitely shouldn't be picking up children over 2 - if a child needs to be lifted due to disability then there should be a proper plan in place and you should have manual handling training.

Cuddling/sitting in laps is a bit of a difference between school nurseries and private settings - schools often have the same policies throughout the school.
Day nurseries will be used to cuddling and having under 3s on their laps so this naturally continues into preschool.

Oh this is so sad, no wonder we have so many children growing into insecure teens and adults.
3 is still so new to the world and if they need the physical reassurance that a cuddle brings, then they absolutely should get it☹️

My DDs headteacher gives the Year 6s hugs if they ask for it so I'd be appalled by that. By all means state it should be initiated by the child or you ask before initiating - so our HT says if a child comes to them for a hug she will hug back or if a child falls over a teacher may say "If you want a hug to feel better you can have one" and the child says yes or not, but to not allow it at all is horrible especially for 3 year olds.

I'm sorry OP I'm all about the nurture, but children don't need to be on laps doing activities and the little girl shouldn't be carried around like a baby.

Comfort of course!

I've been a childminder and worked in schools.
It's a very different setup.

As a childminder I explained my 'contact' with kids. It was selected by them, if they chose to sit on my knee, want a cuddle then that's what they got. All parents wanted that.

In school, kids get a one handed hug and not allowed to sit on knees. Very sad but they have their own policies unless your nursery has a different one from school.

@Libmama As a parent to a LO, I would move my child if I knew this was the case… that they couldn’t be comforted with hugs and cuddles.

Touch is very important for developing brains, and any “caregiver” who doesn’t recognize this shouldn’t be in a caregiving role. AT ALL.

Pick up a copy of the book “Developing a Loving Pedagogy in the Early Years: How Love Fits with Professional Practice” by Tamsin Grimmer

highly recommend.

Sitting on a chair at the table is the expected behaviour in a school setting, not sitting on an adult’s lap to work. Walking around the classroom is the expected behaviour in a school setting,

These are 3 year olds in a nursery, not older children at school. Even in primary school teachers and support staff would give my child a hug if she initiated - she has attachment difficulties and needed the reassurance of a hug at school. I’d have removed her from a school with a “no touch” policy. She’s in high school now and has very clear boundaries around touch but in primary school she needed a much more flexible approach.

This makes me so sad. I have one in KS1 and one in KS2 and I know they are regularly cuddled if they ever want one so I would not like this nursery setting personally!!

As a parent to a LO, I would move my child if I knew this was the case… that they couldn’t be comforted with hugs and cuddles.

But OP hasn't been told to stop comforting and cuddling the children. You can comfort and cuddle a child without carrying them around or having them sit on your knees.

If you find it harsh and don’t understand the role nursery schools have in preparing children for school then, in the gentlest way possible, perhaps it is not the right role for you to be in? If you looked into working in a private day nursery you might find that the ethos was more in line with your views compared to working in a nursery within a school. Nurseries in schools follow school policy and the focus is on preparing children for reception within a school setting. If a child is sat happily playing on the floor they really don’t need to be cuddled up to staff and nursery is the time to be teaching this; a lot of reception activities will take place on the floor too so they do need to learn to play and focus attention with increasing independence and without being overly reliant on being with an adult.

Most school nurseries only take children for 3 hours a day or a maximum of 6, the rest of the time they will likely be at home with a caregiver who can spend time playing games and reading stories with the child on their knee, children in nursery do need to learn to engage in activities without the close support they get from parents at home in readiness for school. Many children in a school nursery won’t be attending any other childcare settings and so won’t have any other opportunities to learn to play a game alongside their peers without the close physical support of sitting with an adult in preparation for school. A child sat on the floor rather than I. A lap is learning to self-regulate, to sit still, developing core strength in their body, in a position to better engage with their peers, developing confidence and independence and taking a more active and self-directed role than they will sat cuddled up with an adult.

I’d be very interested to see the difference in children coming to school from a private nursery with a nurturing approach and those coming from a more “hands off” school nursery.

I absolutely do think under 4s in nursery should get a cuddle when needed. Even primary aged kids, but should obviously be asked first "Do you need a hug?" What a hard world we live in now.

The OP said that the nursery is part of a school, so the expectations will be in line with those in a school rather than as they would be in a private nursery.

I have also not said I agree with a ‘no touch’ policy, I am not against a hug for a child who needs it. I am saying that sitting on laps during activities or carrying children around the classroom in a school setting, even the nursery class, is not helping children to develop the behaviour they will be expected to know by reception age. There is a big difference between giving an upset or anxious child a hug or sitting on laps in a situation where they are upset or anxious and sitting children on laps during activities just because the child initiates it without any attempt to support them to engage in the activity with less physical support.

Personally in a situation where a child got on my lap for an activity in my school I probably would give a quick hug and some reassurance but would then support the child to get off my lap and sit next to me for the activity. If I felt the child did require some physical contact to engage with the activity I would support with a side hug and would then try to gradually reduce this support over the duration of the activity. Im in a special school so for some children this gradual reduction of support might take days or even weeks, but if a senior staff member came into my room they would see that this boundary was being taught and that we were working to reduce the child’s reliance on physical closeness. I would not have a child sit on my lap for the duration of an activity when happy and calm without at least trying to reduce this support, children will be used to sitting on laps for things at home so it’s understandable young children expect to do the same at nursery but this is where practitioners should be working to model and develop the behaviours that they will be expected to have grasped by reception/ KS1.

I think carrying is discouraged for health and safety reasons. Back injuries for adults, slip or trip and dropping child etc.

We cuddle and comfort all our children at nursery. Some want and need more contact that others. However we are discouraged from just sitting cuddling an otherwise well child if it means they are no longer engaging in the activities. Obviously at 3yo you could have seven other children in your ratio also needing you.

We all cuddle and comfort in a child led way at the nursery I work at. I don't think it is possible not to cuddle children in that environment.

Can you link to where these can be found?

I am wondering if there are cases where a child sitting on the lap of a nursery worker or being comforted by them was the critical factor that enabled the abuse?

Or are you thinking more widely that there are unknown paedophiles working in nurseries?