To ask how you’d feel if a friend was with a married man

[EalingLucy]

I’ve got a friend who has recently been talking a lot to a married man (well actually for quite a few months, they met through a hobby group and have been exchanging daily messages for some time). I think she would probably let things go further if he wanted to, and it seems like he might soon.

I only found this out recently — she let slip in a kind of ‘isn’t this exciting’ way with a couple of friends - and one of the friends instantly showed shock / disapproval, whereas I felt that way inwardly but also didn’t want to assume anything as at that point it could have been innocent.

I’ve since realised it’s not innocent, in that she told me today they are flirting. It’s none of my business, but also she likes to talk about it. She said she felt comfy talking to me vs the other person as I’m less judgey / realise life isn’t simple, before I then said he should be concentrating on fixing his relationship with his wife if there is an issue etc and that he needs to put his kids and marriage first. I think her attitude was that she’s not morally in the wrong as it’s his choice, and she’s not responsible for the consequences.

I didn’t want to make her feel judged but I do think she probs slightly felt it. I understand relationships are complex, and she’s not too long out of a 13 year marriage, but is it really that common to have affairs?

I feel like it’s morally wrong to encourage it but also maybe people think this is holier than thou and I should just let her live her life without judgement? I don’t know.

shes a really kind, lovely person otherwise so I’m not going to judge her whole character on this. I think she’s quite lonely, but she is playing with fire. And it’s a shared hobby group I am a part of, so really don’t want this messing the dynamic.

in this situation, would you reserve judgement, secretly judge, or outright tell the person you think it’s not ok? Interested in others’ opinions.

If somebody is trapped in an abusive marriage the answer is not an affair.

If the relationship is over but it is difficult to separate for financial reasons, the answer is not an affair, it’s honesty and finding a way to deal with the financial problems, whilst cohabiting in the short term.

The answer is never lying and betrayal.

If I was in an abusive marriage and started an affair I would not give half a fuck as to whether my abusive partner felt betrayed.

I do find it odd that some people find sexual infidelity a greater crime than abuse.

Quite.

And its not only financial reasons that make women feel trapped in relationships.

And the reasons that keep them there are not always short term.

The naivety in some posts is astounding.

But you should give a fuck about stepping from one toxic relationship into another.

I did not in any way say that sexual infidelity is a greater crime than abuse.

The ONLY solution to an abusive relationship is to end the relationship.

It certainly read that way.

You said 'The answer is never lying and betrayal.'

How can you betray your abuser?

‘Oh my wife is so mean to me that I have to have an affair but I can’t leave the children because she would take them from me, but I mysteriously have all this free time for an affair and yes I can say I have a work thing next weekend’.

yes some people are very naive.

I’ve seen a few posts saying it’s none of your business but by telling you and constantly updating you without asking they’re involving you in a way that would make me uncomfortable.

My sister had an affair with a married man and it did make me think less of her. Not only the moral aspect but I think of her as more stupid than I used to. She would tell me what a great guy he was as he would buy her flowers etc. but he was going home to a wife and kids. I just don’t get how someone can be won over so cheaply. What’s more she introduced him to my parents but of course just presented him as a boyfriend and not the truth. I didn’t want to tell them but I purposely avoided that meet up.

I'll ask my old friend how easy it is to end an abusive relationship so she can go on and be happy with the other man she was getting close to.

Oh wait I can't, her H battered her nearly to death and took her out of the country when she tried to leave.

At least she didn't betray him 👍

You know what you don’t see on the relationship boards ‘is it normal for my husband to get so cross when I don’t get dinner on the table (I was a having a quickie with Greg from next door).‘

Much more likely to be ‘DH keeps getting texts from his new work colleague and he seems really quiet, but he gets cross when I ask about it and says I shouldn’t be snooping’

I've re-read the OP and from what's been written here, it sounds like the friend could well be a bit of a fantastist.

It's possible it's in 'Emotional Affair' territory but also that the bloke is just a bit flattered by the attention and has no intention of taking things further than that. "Isn't it exciting?!" What, that he's texting her? Have you seen these @EalingLucy ? Is it possible she's reading something into this that just isn't there?

Could she be about to make an absolute tit of herself?

It's interesting though that she's also already at the stage of: "It's his relationship, not mine..." sort of thing. On that basis - is what she is saying something HAS already happened?

I would not be focusing on him and his choices vis a vis his wife - this could feed any fantasies if that is all this is - but on her own well-being and ask her why she's become so fixated on someone who isn't available. If she's a good friend and not an acquaintance this is the bit of the conversation I wouldn't let go.

From a financial,perspective, maybe - although lord knows there are enough of us out there rocking single parenting with no financial support from the ex to make this an unreasonable way to think. And from fearing what an abuser might do if you leave, absolutely. But if you’re in fear of leaving because of abuse, how will having an affair make that better? Will you not be on the receiving end of abuse because there is another person? It doesn’t make sense to me.

I was perhaps not thinking things through - of course people feel trapped. But they’re not actually trapped and there are services out there to help people leave difficult relationships. To say ‘oh, some people have an affair because they are trapped in an awful marriage’ comes straight from the cheaters handbook, however. People have choices, some maybe less than others in a given moment, but there are always options.

I’m not sure cheating is one of them.

And you think she had the opportunity to have an affair in this situation????

We are talking specifically about ‘being trapped’ being used as an excuse to have an affair.

To say ‘oh, some people have an affair because they are trapped in an awful marriage’ comes straight from the cheaters handbook, however

Yes

I'm talking about married women having affairs. I said that clearly in my post. The naivety of yours I was also very clearly talking about was assuming all women in bad marriages are in them just due to short term financial constraints which can be overcome.

Though interestingly, your strategy of moving the conversational goal posts as soon as you are challenged, does remind me of my twatty quite abusive Ex.

Warn her that she is being abused and it won’t get better.

Love the way you assume women put the dinner on the tables for men.

But as for the ' killer argument' that its always men cheating as threads on here are all about cheating H's....Do you think maybe that's to do with the supportive reception cheated on wives get compared to the vitriolic one that cheating wives get? It doesn't mean women don't cheat. Just that they don't often post about it, for good reason.

Going off tangent here tbh, I was just pointing out that to say no one is ever trapped is just completely and factually untrue. Although I'm genuinely pleased if anyone doesn't think this is true because it means they've never been exposed to that sort of relationship either directly or indirectly.

But they’re not actually trapped and there are services out there to help people leave difficult relationships. To say ‘oh, some people have an affair because they are trapped in an awful marriage’ comes straight from the cheaters handbook, however. People have choices, some maybe less than others in a given moment, but there are always options

There are not services to help people leave difficult relationships. Sorry to disabuse you of this misinformation. There are limited services to help people leave criminally abusive relationships. That's all.

The choices women often have are shit, and those choices are not in a 'given moment' that is a deliberate choice of words by you to minimise other people's hard long term reality. So some stay and I for one don't blame them for the choices they make in those situations.

Yes, in abusive relationships on the relationships board on MN that is often the case.

I don’t think women tend to post much about cheating on MN, but if you think the response is ‘vitriolic’, I think the clue is in the word ‘cheating’.

She is not kind or lovely. She is knowingly playing with fire that could destroy someone’s life, never to be the same again. Same goes for the bloke. If people DONT judge then this horrible behaviour is normalised.

I don’t think women tend to post much about cheating on MN, but if you think the response is ‘vitriolic’, I think the clue is in the word ‘cheating

Ah and there we have it. The real motivation behind your claimed opinions.

What is the relevance of women in abusive relationships (such that they are unlikely to have the resources or time to have an affair) to people in general having affairs?

The discussion about being trapped was specifically about this being used as an excuse to have an affair. You have moved the goal posts to talk about all people trapped in any relationship.

She’s a cunt

I do think there is an inherent misogynistic slant to this whole discussion. Men are seemingly acknowledged for thinking with their dicks and women are somehow typecast as luring men towards infidelity. I can be a mistress but there is no equivalent term for men. There are literally websites full of people wanting affairs. Have a look at illicit encounters. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of what I do, and what many other people do, for some reason it’s worse as I’m a woman. I’m responsible for what I’m ‘doing’ to my husband and also what I’m ‘doing’ to his wife. I’m not doing anything to anyone. It has nothing to do with them. It is structured in a way that means they will never know.

I do think there is an inherent misogynistic slant to this whole discussion.

There always is.

I guess it's more palatable to think of your husband as someone who got tricked or bewitched or stolen than that he actually chose to do this and now you have to reassess who he is. There are so many misogynistic stereotypes and narratives to support this, and they are so deeply baked in, that it becomes extremely easy. And it's never long before challenging this leads to accusations of being an OW yourself. To some people, there can be no reasonable, objective reason to reject this line of thinking. Only cheaters could think a cheater is wholly responsible, apparently.

Even the ones who say they're merely blaming her "equally" have it wrong. First off, they never actually are (look at how much energy they spend on him and how much they spend on her) and anyway, even if they were...how can someone who's not married to you, not your partner and not your kids' co-parent ever be equally responsible as someone who is? The whole point of marriage is to create a greater commitment and duty to the other person.