To ask how you’d feel if a friend was with a married man

[EalingLucy]

I’ve got a friend who has recently been talking a lot to a married man (well actually for quite a few months, they met through a hobby group and have been exchanging daily messages for some time). I think she would probably let things go further if he wanted to, and it seems like he might soon.

I only found this out recently — she let slip in a kind of ‘isn’t this exciting’ way with a couple of friends - and one of the friends instantly showed shock / disapproval, whereas I felt that way inwardly but also didn’t want to assume anything as at that point it could have been innocent.

I’ve since realised it’s not innocent, in that she told me today they are flirting. It’s none of my business, but also she likes to talk about it. She said she felt comfy talking to me vs the other person as I’m less judgey / realise life isn’t simple, before I then said he should be concentrating on fixing his relationship with his wife if there is an issue etc and that he needs to put his kids and marriage first. I think her attitude was that she’s not morally in the wrong as it’s his choice, and she’s not responsible for the consequences.

I didn’t want to make her feel judged but I do think she probs slightly felt it. I understand relationships are complex, and she’s not too long out of a 13 year marriage, but is it really that common to have affairs?

I feel like it’s morally wrong to encourage it but also maybe people think this is holier than thou and I should just let her live her life without judgement? I don’t know.

shes a really kind, lovely person otherwise so I’m not going to judge her whole character on this. I think she’s quite lonely, but she is playing with fire. And it’s a shared hobby group I am a part of, so really don’t want this messing the dynamic.

in this situation, would you reserve judgement, secretly judge, or outright tell the person you think it’s not ok? Interested in others’ opinions.

That's a lovely concept but the fact is that, when the ow gets dumped/thrown under a bus/discarded etc. ...it's generally her friends - particularly the ones who didn't appear to judge - who she goes to for support, often quite a high degree of support.

So it becomes their business wherher they want it to or not. Kind people find it very hard to ignore distressed people, esp when they're supposed to be friends.

Be her friend. You’re not her moral compass. She’s right in that she’s not doing anything wrong, the man is.

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Relationships can be complicated, and people have their reasons for seeking what may be missing from theirs and not just ending it.

Does that apply to you when your partner seeks what he/she feels they are missing - in other people - but doesn't tell you or end things with you because it's convenient/it doesn't suit them to, yet??

Exactly. It’s easy not to be bothered about it when it’s not you being cheated on or when the one being cheated upon is a stranger to you. Much less so when it’s closer to home.

Yes, this would worry me too.

This actually sounds like a rather pathetic situation, sniffing round after a married man who likes a bit of attention and hasn't needed to offer anything substantial back to get it. It's fairly pitiful at the moment and has the potential to become more so. The friend could well end up hurt. Even if OP wasn't bothered at all about any moral aspect of the situation, it's clearly unwise.

She does not have any responsibility towards anyone else in this situation as she does not have a relationship with the wife, children etc.

She isn’t actively doing the cheating, but she finds the person who does the cheating attractive and provides him with affirmation and colludes with the dishonesty and betrayal.

The closest moral comparison I can think of is buying dodgy goods - but the people being harmed aren’t in a factory on the other side of the world.

Obviously not, because it's my partner and he's in a relationship with me so I know our situation and lives

This thread is about whether its ok to judge a friend potentially having it off with a married man, not whether people are ok with being cheated on.

If she’s choosing to talk to you about it then she’s opening herself up to your opinions.

I think I’d have to encourage her to think of his children in this and then ask her not to speak to you about it.

I do find it odd that the affair partners are always ‘such a lovely/great/kind person’ because clearly they aren’t. You wouldn’t nick someone’s parcel off their front step but you would try it on with their partner

I do find it odd that the affair partners are always ‘such a lovely/great/kind person’ because clearly they aren’t.

I wonder who they think is doing the childcare during their trysts, and who washed the pants that are on the floor.

The OP’s friend doesn’t seem to have got that far, but I say yes absolutely, judge away, if that is what the friend wants for herself.

I think we can all fantasize that it'll all end in your friends tears, but unfortunately many happy marriages do begin with a husband cheating on his wife and leaving her for that woman. 'Relationship' men do tend to line up the next woman before they leave. So it's not morally right or girl code what she's doing but she may well get a boyfriend she likes out of it. I know a few where this has worked out (one my ex and his 'she's just a friend' colleague who he now has a family with, one a girl I know who 'stole' a husband from his wife and baby and now has a couple of her own kids and is married to the guy)

This is also true

She deserves to be judged. I'd tell her exactly what I thought, stupid woman.

She's enabling him though so she is also in the wrong, she is willing to contribute to causing pain to another person (the wife).

This, exactly. One hundred percent don't judge her, but also caution her she's setting herself up for years of grief.

I have a friend who has been having an affair with a married man for the past 30+ years. We don't really talk about it as she knows our group of friends don't think it's a good idea.

So she’s had 30 years of never being with him at Christmas etc . Waste of a life IMO.

I would as another poster put it, bin her. No room in my life for people like this. Judgy? - absolutely and proud to do so.

They absolutely do. I wouldn't be anyone's bit on the side because I have respect for myself and couldn't find a man who was willing to do the dirty on his wife and kids attractive. The whole not owing anything to a stranger is a really immature attitude and I can only assume anyone who would hurt anyone like this, even a stranger is a complete POS to be honest.

So it's not morally right or girl code what she's doing but she may well get a boyfriend she likes out of it.

Until he lines up the next woman (who buys all his lines - he’s had the opportunity to practice), because it’s a pattern of behaviour.

Realistically one of 4 things is likely to happen:
(unless she chooses to put an end to it):

he’ll decide to stay with his wife and the affair/flirtation will stop

he’ll string her along for years but with no intention of leaving his wife - the full cake and eat it

his wife knows and they laugh about the saddo trying to flirt with him

he leaves his wife for her and she spends the relationship wondering whether he would do the same to her.

happy ever after isn’t one of them

From experience, absolutely this. These things become drama-fests, draining anyone foolish enough still to be standing nearby.

And the drama doesn't wait till after the affair. IME (with family, friends & colleagues), OWs and some OM whine endlessly that the affair partner hasn't left their spouse, expect you to validate them as they slag off said spouse, use you as cover for their absence (with or without your permission) and generally put you in the position of lying unless you want to be the one to blow the gaff.

They don't take out their feelings on the affair partner, with whom they get very little time and to whom they are smiley and happy and encouraging (for fear of getting dumped). So they take it all out on their friends - from the excitement to the misery.

Being the "friend who doesn't judge and they can talk to" is exhausting and, when they try to turn you into a liar for them, degrading.

These days I'd absolutely do what PP have said they do: shut down talk with "I'm not interested in hearing about your affair dramas."

And if I were really fed up, add "You're already being shitty to other people and stupid to yourself; don't inflict it on us too."

I wonder what the cause of her failed marriage was. I wonder if she feels some sense of bolstered confidence that she can lure a happily married man into her bed. She may be feeling insecure from her break up and is feeding the insecurity with a misguided attempt at feeling 'chosen'. It's deluded as many very happily married men can by lured by a very average woman if she is offering excitement and sex both of which probably are waning in his long term marriage. It doesn't actually mean she's special but in a fragile state we don't always think logically

Yes exactly. She does go on short breaks with him, goodness knows what he tells his wife.

That's not true though, Crumpet. People who lose their partner to an affair would like it to be true, but it isn't.

Sometimes people in a relationship fall in love with somebody new and leave to be with that person and are really happy and faithful for the rest of their lives. My dad was married to somebody else when my mom met him and left for her and they are still really in love after 50 years. My husband's dad left his mom for another woman and lives a really happy life with her, again still in love 40 years on. Etc. If they are honest, most people will know examples of this. My daughter's dad left me for another woman and seems much more calm and peaceful with her than he ever was with me. Because she is a different person to me, not better or worse, but better suited for keeping him on an even keel perhaps.

None of it is "fair", but who said life was?

Maybe your friend and this married man are perfect for each other. And maybe he is unhappy in his relationship. Is he meant to stay in it for the rest of his life just because he chose wrong (or maybe he chose right at the time but he and his wife grew apart).

I have no skin in the game here - my husband and I were both single when we met each other, and that has been true for all of my relationships.

But of course I know that logically it is true that you could meet somebody who is married and fall in love with them and be happy with them if they leave their partner.

OP, you have three choices:

• put your moral qualms aside and just support your friend fully.
• tell her you disapprove but still care about her and continue as friends but ask her not to talk about it. (This may end the friendship anyway if she feels patronised).
• end the friendship.

I think given your disapproval is strong enough to lead you to post on here, you have to choose the second or third, probably the third.

I'd judge her and back off from the friendship. As others have said, it only ends in drama.