To ask how you’d feel if a friend was with a married man

[EalingLucy]

I’ve got a friend who has recently been talking a lot to a married man (well actually for quite a few months, they met through a hobby group and have been exchanging daily messages for some time). I think she would probably let things go further if he wanted to, and it seems like he might soon.

I only found this out recently — she let slip in a kind of ‘isn’t this exciting’ way with a couple of friends - and one of the friends instantly showed shock / disapproval, whereas I felt that way inwardly but also didn’t want to assume anything as at that point it could have been innocent.

I’ve since realised it’s not innocent, in that she told me today they are flirting. It’s none of my business, but also she likes to talk about it. She said she felt comfy talking to me vs the other person as I’m less judgey / realise life isn’t simple, before I then said he should be concentrating on fixing his relationship with his wife if there is an issue etc and that he needs to put his kids and marriage first. I think her attitude was that she’s not morally in the wrong as it’s his choice, and she’s not responsible for the consequences.

I didn’t want to make her feel judged but I do think she probs slightly felt it. I understand relationships are complex, and she’s not too long out of a 13 year marriage, but is it really that common to have affairs?

I feel like it’s morally wrong to encourage it but also maybe people think this is holier than thou and I should just let her live her life without judgement? I don’t know.

shes a really kind, lovely person otherwise so I’m not going to judge her whole character on this. I think she’s quite lonely, but she is playing with fire. And it’s a shared hobby group I am a part of, so really don’t want this messing the dynamic.

in this situation, would you reserve judgement, secretly judge, or outright tell the person you think it’s not ok? Interested in others’ opinions.

If you are having sex with somebody whose wife thinks he is staying late at a meeting while she sorts out the homework, and the world book day costume, you are helping someday to put his dick where it shouldn’t be.

Yeah I couldn’t condone that! I’d tell her what I thought.

I wouldn't cut off a friend or even distance myself. Life is complicated.

I’m not suggesting she’s responsible for his behaviour. I’m saying she’s responsible for hers, and persuading someone to break serious promises isn’t good behaviour - regardless of whether the persuasion attempt is successful.
As for the anger - it’s not either or, is it? Plus, again, I haven’t said I wouldn’t continue the friendship. With that analogy though - if they angrily smash someone else’s plates when you aren’t there is it still wrong? Because if so, then I’m not sure your attitude to cheaters is consistent.

Irrelevant. If he's a loyal husband then you could run at him naked and you wouldn't be able to do anything. Barry's made a promise, don't go after Greta. Simply being available doesn't put his commitment on you. Do you judge sex workers for being available to every married man?

But I'm not looking for a derail. In my experience, it isn't isn't before the misogynistic slurs begin - it's bad enough holding women responsible at all for men's choices with their dicks - and I haven't got the energy today. Suffice to say, I trust my husband and therefore I don't care who any other women is or what she's willing to "help" with because it doesn't matter. And if he ever betrayed me, it's on him.

Sorry, I'll be clearer.

No, I don't. The only person responsible and morally dubious is the 'promise' breaker imo.

I don't need it to be "consistent". If I ended every friendship with someone who did something wrong, I'd have no friends and nobody would be friends with me. The fact that I wouldn't be friends with an out of control rage head doesn't mean I am obliged to end friendships with women who sleep with married men.

@SurprisedWithAHorse why do you keep going on about friendship ending? I’ve specifically said that’s not what I’m suggesting.

Well that is clear.
Not something I find understandable, but clear. We don’t have to agree and you don’t have to explain why. But I really don’t get how you can feel that way.

People who lose their partner to an affair would like it to be true, but it isn't.

I was the OW. I was single after a divorce a few years prior. He was unhappily married with adult children.
We got together because we loved each other.
He divorced his wife because he loved me and didn't love her anymore.
We stay together because we love each other.
I have never had a moments doubt about his loyalty and faithfulness with me. We've been together for over 10 years and will marry next year - it took us a while to get around to arranging it!

I've explained why, a few times.

I can't understand how any blame can be assigned to anyone other than the cheater but like you say, we don't have to agree and we don't have to understand each others views.

If you are not comfortable with her talking about it to you, then tell her this. Sometimes friends have differing opinions and agree to disagree and not discuss that topic.

I agree with your friend that she is not morally responsible for any man's sexual behaviour. That is always on the man. His fidelity or not in his marriage is his responsibility alone.

Being a single woman with a married man is, however, a pretty shit deal unless she is only interested in NSA sex with someone she has no emotionally connection to. Otherwise its a headfuck of waiting around for when he's free and continually doing the 'pick me dance'. She'd be better off getting her self esteem in order after her marriage break up and seeking a real relationship.

I agree with your friend that she is not morally responsible for any man's sexual behaviour. That is always on the man. His fidelity or not in his marriage is his responsibility alone.

She is however responsible for her own behaviour. And going after married men is pretty shitty behaviour.

My best decades-long friend (male) is having an affair with a married woman. He himself is single. It's a very convoluted/complicated/dramatic (eye-roll) situation, they've been 'together' for the past 10 or more years. Intermingled with other people, other affairs. Convoluted, like I said.

Other than not wanting to hear about it (because it's very boring at this point), I couldn't care less. I know the woman in question too and I like her. It's absolutely not my business. My friend is single/not married, the woman is, but I don't know her husband and owe no loyalty to him.

For me its the subtle blaming of the OW for the affair happening at all that I can't get on board with.

People might say the man is to blame more, but its always the OW fault in the first place by default if any blame is assigned to her:

She shouldn't chase after the man and tempt the poor lamb = affair wouldn't happen if she didn't do that (when it's really just "affair wouldn't happen with her")

She should have ignored his advances = same as above

How about man shouldn't let himself be tempted or try to stick his dick where it doesn't belong = affair doesn't start?

I completely agree with this.

The obsessive focus on the OW, the absolutely vitriolic language attached to the OW (you never hear this kind of language about the H), the overt, and frankly insane, refusal to accept that she cannot have any redeemable or good qualities at all. This is never said about the man, After all, why would you be mad that an OW has stolen a man with an irredeemably bad personality? Normally, if an OP is with a man with arsey qualities, we tell OP that they are lucky the man showed his true qualities and how you are free of him now, OP. But with affairs its all, 'its so terrible, the happy family has been destroyed.' But hang on, if having an affair makes one irredeemably evil, surely the H was too, and the marriage cannot have been a good one?

Unless having sex when you shouldn't only makes women evil but not men? But hang on, isn't that a misogyny as old (older) as the bible?

Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. What if he’s trapped in an unhappy marriage and it’s the real thing for both of them? I know several couples where one or both had an affair who are still with their affair partners 20+ years later. Life is not black or white.

I would suggest after 30 years, the wife is very much aware of that is going on and is turning a blind eye. For whatever reason, the husband wants to stay married (and at this point, it really can't be 'for the sake of the children'). OW gets to maintain her independence. It's possible that all 3 people here are getting whatever it is they need from the relationship. Not sure I could do it.

Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. What if he’s trapped in an unhappy marriage and it’s the real thing for both of them? I know several couples where one or both had an affair who are still with their affair partners 20+ years later. Life is not black or white

• do not blame the person being cheated on for being cheated on. The only person who needs to take responsbility for that is the cheater.
• no one is 'trapped'. We live in a modern world where divorce and new relationships are a well-accepted norm of our society.
• the 'real thing' doesn't come from hiding behind corners and lying to the person you took solemn vows with.
• No, life isn't black and white. But you can leave a marriage before starting something new. That reduces the stress and upset for all concerned. The reality is, people don't leave their marriages because it suits them not to. In my ex's case, his relationship with the OW only came out at the point it was going to be exposed to me and he needed to take control of what was going to happen.

I would give my opinion if it was asked if me directly and would say it was unfair on his wife and that she should not be a part of this deception. I would still be her friend but I would lose respect for her and it has actually happened to me many times with friends. Also my friends have been the married woman having the affair. If I was not asked it would show on my face and silence and not wanting to engage in the gossip would speak volumes.

• no one is 'trapped'. We live in a modern world where divorce and new relationships are a well-accepted norm of our society

You only need to read the relationships boards to see there are plenty of women who do feel trapped in bad relationships for a variety of reasons. But that's a different thread.

I might be uncomfortable. I might be worried she will get hurt. But she is my friend, so I have to be loyal to her - even if I choose not to discuss it with her, if/when things go wrong then I will be there to support her and pick up the pieces. That's what friends do, without judgement.

After being in a marriage where the other person had multiple affairs, I wouldn't be able to be friends with someone who has openly admitted to talking to a married man. I would probably figure out who his wife was and let her know. I will be eternally grateful to the person who told me.

"no one is 'trapped'. We live in a modern world where divorce and new relationships are a well-accepted norm of our society"

Its nice to think no one is ever trapped, however this is simply not true unfortunately. Usually women trapped more than men IME but I imagine it happens the other way round too.

If he treats his wife like this how will he treat your friend? I’d frame it as concern for her…: which I’m sure you are. It may all feel very genuine from both sides but if he thinks it’s ok to do this to his wife what does the future hold for your friend…