To ask how you’d feel if a friend was with a married man

[EalingLucy]

I’ve got a friend who has recently been talking a lot to a married man (well actually for quite a few months, they met through a hobby group and have been exchanging daily messages for some time). I think she would probably let things go further if he wanted to, and it seems like he might soon.

I only found this out recently — she let slip in a kind of ‘isn’t this exciting’ way with a couple of friends - and one of the friends instantly showed shock / disapproval, whereas I felt that way inwardly but also didn’t want to assume anything as at that point it could have been innocent.

I’ve since realised it’s not innocent, in that she told me today they are flirting. It’s none of my business, but also she likes to talk about it. She said she felt comfy talking to me vs the other person as I’m less judgey / realise life isn’t simple, before I then said he should be concentrating on fixing his relationship with his wife if there is an issue etc and that he needs to put his kids and marriage first. I think her attitude was that she’s not morally in the wrong as it’s his choice, and she’s not responsible for the consequences.

I didn’t want to make her feel judged but I do think she probs slightly felt it. I understand relationships are complex, and she’s not too long out of a 13 year marriage, but is it really that common to have affairs?

I feel like it’s morally wrong to encourage it but also maybe people think this is holier than thou and I should just let her live her life without judgement? I don’t know.

shes a really kind, lovely person otherwise so I’m not going to judge her whole character on this. I think she’s quite lonely, but she is playing with fire. And it’s a shared hobby group I am a part of, so really don’t want this messing the dynamic.

in this situation, would you reserve judgement, secretly judge, or outright tell the person you think it’s not ok? Interested in others’ opinions.

How do people go along with this rubbish?

‘I’m staying for the kids because I just love them so much that I am treating their mother appallingly… oh and also this way she takes them to swimming on Tuesdays and I can pretend I’m staying late at work and still get my shirts ironed (Did I tell you I have ‘dis-ironia? Yes, she hasn’t been very understanding, but I find I can just talk to you…’)’

It’s not just a question of reserving judgement - it sounds as though she is asking for affirmation of behaviour with which you fundamentally disagree. That is not a good basis for a friendship.

I wouldn’t mention it unless she did, and then I would probably carefully advise that it’s not the best route to take etc.

If I consider her a good friend apart from this, I would maintain the friendship.

You have a person who is willing to be involved in the worst betrayal a person can experience. A person who is willing to be the catalyst for kids growing up divorced. If that isn't enough to give you the ick, then think on this:

Normal morals clearly don't apply to the friend. Other people distance themselves because they realise that ultimately, in 7, 12, 20 years this friend will do something devastatingly selfish at YOUR expense. Because they are not wired right. The place they operate from is a place of deep selfishness.

That's why we don't want them in our lives.

They both probably like the attention they get off each other a bit of a boost

a lot of the time things like this go nowhere

All these posts outraged that there are women who have affairs with married men, if it wasn’t your friend it would be someone else. The problem is the men who chase these. She does not have any responsibility towards anyone else in this situation as she does not have a relationship with the wife, children etc. It is his mess, not hers. It sounds as if this is a mutual flirtation and not her relentlessly going after him. They’ve bonded over a shared hobby and it looks like they’ll take things further. Decide where you sit in your moral judgement but I wouldn’t lose a friend over this situation. It does sound different to the other friend you described. The fact is people meet and do things they shouldn’t. Some of these people leave their partners and live happily ever after, some don’t. It’s life.
Just in case there are any comments, I have never been the OW. I have been cheated on and it is very hurtful, but the man is to blame not the women for not saying ‘no’. If men are cheats they will find someone to cheat with.

If she was a good friend I would try and be supportive; I’d reminding her she will likely get hurt, asking her if she even want to be with a man who cheats, talking about the hurt and upset this will cause his family etc. I wouldn’t be ditching her.

Of course the men are to blame but the women who engage with them lack standards, don't care who gets hurt because it's 'not their problem, not their vows', and are a party to deception and unethical behaviour because they are clearly the only ones whose feelings matter. Not someone I could respect or trust. It probably goes doubly for the man.

She’s not a nice person. She’s a horrible, selfish person.
It might be his decision but she is encouraging and facilitating it with full knowledge of his wife and children. I couldn’t be friends with her.

This.

Lack standards?? No they don’t! Your post suggests that women should be models of virtue and never do anything, god forbid, that it might hurt someone else. Your view of women is dreadful, in this situation the married man is at fault. To suggest that affairs wouldn’t happen if women simply refused to partake because a man was married is ridiculous. It is unrealistic and like many other things in society makes the woman out to be the wrong one. Save your hate for the men who engage in this instead of having some ridiculous idea that women should always take the moral high ground.

👏 👏 👏

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Relationships can be complicated, and people have their reasons for seeking what may be missing from theirs and not just ending it.

My friend has been having an affair for years, she has her reasons, I just tell her to dial down the details if we'll all be meeting up soon so I don't have a fresh image in my head of her affair partner going at it for 3 hours while I'm chatting to her DH 😬

I think this is quite often the case sadly. I would suggest that emotionally strong boundaried women don’t often get into this situation of living for breadcrumbs of attention from an unavailable man and thinking that’s all they are worth. Exceptions of course to this.

Clearly you didn't read my post at all, or didn't comprehend it.

Both partners in an affair are doing something awful. The man more so but neither is virtuous.

I did read and comprehend your post, you would ‘probably’ blame the man more 🙄

This. I wouldn't get involved or make judgements. What happens next is up to her, her "friend"and his wife.

Not anyone else's business.

I agree.

She's currently a wannabe OW. It often doesn't work out well for women in that position. Quite conceivable that this man strings her along in some capacity for a lengthy period, with these little nuggets of attention and perhaps eventually dick.

Sometimes RL can be complicated .Your friend possibly feels excited to have a new man in her life.She is being reckless and it probably wont end well,however all you can do is be there for her .Just say you want to stay friends ,but would rather not hear too much about it for now. If shes just come out of a long marriage then she is probably feeling vulnerable ,and enjoying this time.His poor wife has to live with him .Unlikely he will leave his wife they rarely do.

I would tell her she's out of line. That you don't approve.
That she could have some feelings for the sanctity of marriage and that, unless she has a relationship with someone who is completley free to give himself to the relationship (he is divorced), then she will have a long, futile time with no happy ending.

I would be very wary of her. I would not trust her.

Societal judgement is how we.as a society work out what is and what is not acceptable- some being written in to law (murder, stealing, rape) and others being frowned upon - and these things can change over time (both law and social attitudes) - eg single mothers and being gay are rightly socially acceptable.

I don't think as a society that affairs are seen as socially acceptable and therefore your friend can expect to feel judged - she is under no obligation to act upon that but her behaviour will still draw ill feeling.

Maybe, if OP had found out accidentally. But if you go round telling people you’re seeing a married man you can expect to be judged.

If it was a close friend I'd be brutally honest with them and say I am judging their character, if it was a friend I wasn't overly close to I'd say as a PP has said that I don't want to hear about it.

My ex best friend had affairs - and even used me to baby sit (she was single) so she could go out shagging married men - I was ten years younger and she always played the I’m single and he isn’t. But she thrived off the drama. After years of therapy and ditching her I feel great and I’m not having her drag me down - fab and now I don’t speak or have anything to do with her. This people generally have low self esteem and if they can lie and backstab and treat people like that I don’t want them as a friend

Something doesn't sit right with me though with this 'my morals are better than yours thing' there are lots of topics if people ask my opinion on I will state it but I don't judge people for those choices, if perfectly legal ones

This pearl clutching 'I need you to know I don't agree with what you doing to make myself feel better' is odd

And of course it’s easy to be non judgemental of your friend when the wife being cheated on is a stranger to you. Bit different when she’s another friend of yours, or your sister.