To think someone must be able to do something - part 3

[PurpleLampShades]

I never thought I’d be needing to start a third thread but here we are. The first two threads have been a great source of support for me so I’m going to carry on.

First Thread
Second Thread

Long story short - DS (17) has been in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started when he was 15, though I have no proof as they deny it. This has been going on since at least March 2022. SS, the police and the DSL at his college have all been involved and things from that front have been pretty much exhausted. He has been on CIN and early intervention plans, been visited/spoken to by the police, offered workshops, counselling, contact centre etc. The main stumbling blocks are DS’s refusal/inability to recognise the abusive and toxic situation he is in and the resulting refusal to engage with services to extract him from it.
She is abusive, manipulative and extremely controlling. She has isolated him almost entirely from friends, family and hobbies. She is destroying his self esteem, confidence and self-worth. She controls his phone, who he speaks to, where he goes, what he does. I know she has slapped him around the face more than once and was seen to put her hand around his throat while they were kissing once. I don’t know if there are other incidents like that. The remaining protective factor is that he is still managing to attend college, although attendance is a bit of a concern.

I am at the point of not really knowing what to do now. I feel like I’ve lost him.

Sorry to sound so negative, I've followed all 3 threads and my heart goes out to you, but I really do feel he is being manipulative, no doubt orchestrated by her but we are at the point where he has to take some responsibility for his behaviour. Despite being fully aware of how shattering this has been for you, he has repeatedly broken all promises to keep in touch yet somehow finds a way to see you when he wants money. Do not play into his/her hands xx

I wonder if you could lend him/give him the money and when he comes to collect it, try and have a quick talk with him to say something along the lines of 'you know I'm always here for you, but the way you're living is worrying me so much. Nobody should be scared of the person they're living with, or be scared of seeing their friends and family, and you just don't look happy at the minute and you haven't looked happy for so long'

It's not going to make him leave her, but it may help him to hear the words spoken out loud and it may plant a seed which, in his heart, he recognises to be true.

There's no magic wand here and no magic words to make him come to his senses. He's young and she's trading on that.

But this is something that he's going to realise gradually - and he will! - and that he'll struggle to understand.

But if he knows that you're there for him, it'll make it easier when he does realise.

Your son is between the devil and the deep blue sea here.
She has basically set him up to fail.
If he doesn't give her what she says she wants because he hasn't managed to 'save' enough then she'll say that he doesn't care enough and doesn't love her. If he borrows from you and pays for this holiday she'll badger him until he confesses where he got the money from. Then she'll be able to say that he doesn't love her enough to save money for her birthday present and that he's selfish to have spent money on himself and not her. Then she'll probably get really mad at him for going to you for money. She can then lay the blame for 'ruining' her birthday squarely at his door there by piling on more guilt and thus increasing control further. Here's the thing - she controls him and I would guess that she knows exactly how much money that he has/doesn't have and she knows that he can't possibly be able to save enough to pay for a weekend away.

So, where does that place you?

If you don't give him the money you risk opening up the fissure in your relationship even further. She'll be able to say that you don't care about her or want to hurt her feelings and how can she possibly trust you to like her when you won't give your son the money he needs to make her 'happy'? It puts doubt in his mind again about you thus further increasing her grip.

If you give him the money she will know that he's come to you for it or she will badger until he confesses that YOU have paid for her birthday treat. She will then probably declare that she can't possibly enjoy the gift from your son and her birthday will be in ruins. He will feel guilty, mortified, panicky etc and thus her control gets increased/cemented further because he will want to make amends. She may make him hand back every penny leaving him further short of funds which, of course, increases her grip further.

In your shoes I probably wouldn't give him the money. I would, if I could afford it, increase his monthly allowance but I would do this quietly without any announcement. This has two advantages - it shows quiet understanding on your part of his difficulties plus it reduces her arguments of "look how much you cost me" etc plus she has no valid complaint because no one asked for an increase as it is given freely WITHOUT strings. Your son will remember this. It is entirely possible that she has engineered this to 'encourage' an offer to increase his allowance and by doing it without request or comment you are showing that you care for him - she will hate that but what valid argument could she have without looking so batshit that it reduces her control?

also as well the more I think about it.
she tracks his every movement, every movement. Yet he manages to come to yours without her knowing to ask for money so they can go away for her bday?

im willing to bet she’s driven him round, told him to ask you and if you say no it’s because you’re ‘controlling’

I’d give him some money but not all. I’d worry she will kick off if he has more money than expected then finds out he has come to see you?

im so sorry that you are still no further forward :-( I’ve been here since the beginning and I’m so shocked this is still the situation x

Sauvblanctime · Today 21:15

also as well the more I think about it.
she tracks his every movement, every movement. Yet he manages to come to yours without her knowing to ask for money so they can go away for her bday?

im willing to bet she’s driven him round, told him to ask you and if you say no it’s because you’re ‘controlling’

Agree

I'd give him the money. I wouldn't place conditions on the money, this can be interpreted as controlling.

I would, however, comment that you'd have been overjoyed with a card or call from him on your birthday.

@Sauvblanctime

I agree sadly

OP I don't know if you should give him money or not... but I do think if you give him money it can't be with the conditions of a weekly coffee etc. She will absolutely use this against you and claim you are controlling & the abuser. I also think if you lend/give money for her birthday it's setting a precedent that it happens again for her Christmas gift.

Perhaps as a compromise you could say that you can't afford to lend him money for a weekend away but you could lend him money for a lovely supermarket shop so he can make her favourite dinner it get her w takeaway?

She really is awful. If she cared about him she would just want him to spend time with her. It's also very concerning that when he is 18 he may feel pressured to run up debt to pay towards things for her house of her

I really hope he is realising how awful this relationship is with her

I’d not give him money, at all, while he’s living with the woman.

I think the GF has likely convinced him to ask for the money. It does seem unusual that she controls a lot of his life yet was able to come around to ask for money which will benefit her.

I wouldn't give him the money. I would offer a smaller amount and explain you simply cannot afford any more right now. I would also be asking the hard questions you worry about. After all this time of fighting his corner, showing love and concern, this move from him seems like a low blow I bet.

He needs to know you love and care for him, but equally that you are not there to be maniuplauted financially when it suits. He's already been away for a long time, he can't drift any futher. Ask the questions OP. You can take back some control from this.

Whatever you do, I wish you well OP. This has been awful to witness on here, the sheer abuse towards your DS by this women is sickening.

What a heartbreaking situation. I'd give him the money.

No way would I give him the money.

I'm afraid you are being emotionally blackmailed by a son who refuses all contact with you EXCEPT when he wants money.

I've followed this from the beginning, you need to start practicing tough love.

Say he will always have a home to return to but that you are no longer prepared to be a pawn in his toxic relationship.

Enough.

I'm not sure if you should give him the money or not but I possibly would wonder if you would have lent him the money if he was 17 and wanted to spend £300 for a weekend with his 17 year old girlfriend.

If it is something you would have done before then yes lend him the money. If you wouldn't have given the money then don't. Stay true to yourself as a mum and don't let her (or him) control you.

Agree with the previous posters that it's interesting that he's managed to come to you asking for money for her birthday but can't possibly pop a card in for yours.

X

I'm also suspicious that he managed to come to see you without her knowledge, seems very unlikely as she is so controlling.

If I could afford it I would give him half the amount he has asked for then wait and see what happens next ie whether he makes efforts to keep in touch with you.

You've done all you can to protect your son and seem to have been thwarted at every turn. Sooner or later he is going to have to stand on his own two feet, and you have to let go and let him make the errors he will inevitably make. Sadly his first big mistake is getting involved with this nut job. He considers himself "grown up" enough to leave home and live with this woman. If he can only afford a modest birthday present for her, then that what he should buy her, not scrounge off his old mum. She's manipulating him, and using him to manipulate you. If you sub this birthday present, what else are you going to have to sub? I'd let them get on with it. Will he be so attractive to her when she can't wind you up over him?

Hi@PurpleLampShades I've been here since your 1st thread. I'm so sad you are still dealing with this nightmare.

Like @WavyLines11 said I'd give half the money as I can honestly see this being repeated. Like others I really would mot be surprised if she was sitting round the corner waiting on him to come out.

How can she expect such an expensive gift from a teenager with no job? She knows exactly what she's doing. So manipulative.

You could say you just haven't got that sort of money right now but run the risk of that being taken out on your son. It's such a shit situation all round. I'd give half and see how often you see him after that.

My heart goes out to you. I'm glad you are still seeing your counsellor and can talk through your feelings with them. We are all still here for you Purple. ❤️

Just sending hugs.

I feel like a failure because I can't give you any helpful advice.

Hold on that one day he will realise and recognise the abuse and leave.

Sending hugs from one purple to another

Purple, I don't think there's any way you can win on this. If you give him the money you can guarantee the gf will find out it's from you and be ad with your poor boy for contacting you. If you don't give it to him, she will also find that out and use it to tell him it proves you don't care. She has him totally in her grip. Are you still seeing a counsellor? Do they have any suggestions? It must be so upsetting seeing him look ill. What about offering a % of the money on condition they both have lunch with you once a month for 3 months? That way he wouldn't have to try to keep a secret from her and hopefully seeing you both together might show your love / her control. I have no idea of the best way to do this but I think of you, and hope your boy finally breaks free and goes home to you.

I've just seen this thread, although I commented on your previous ones.

My gut instinct was absolutely not, or, if he would like to earn additional pocket money from me (he's only 17, so in reality this is what he should be getting stil), then he's welcome to come home and do chores. Mow the lawn, hoover, stay for coffee, visit grandma etc.

I would be furious and there would probably be a comment along the lines of you thinking birthdays weren't important to him anymore.

I would tell him he can have the money when his attendance at college improves, so get him to ask a teacher to confirm he's been there everyday for the next few weeks, on time, and in the library every lunchtime with at least one of his friends.

I know you are wary of conditions, but at 17 life comes with boundaries from your parents. That's a good thing and totally normal. Maybe say you will then meet him for dinner somewhere nice and give him a cheque. This is your chance to take back a little control of the situation.

In reality, he's on a hiding to nothing and whatever happens will be the wrong thing. I think that if you want him to keep working and having that time away from her, then I would help him financially but ask to see his payment plan for repaying you.

I would absolutely make it conditional on him reintergrating with his family, friends and college though.

OP, I think this is the case.

She is now using you in her mind games with your son.

She wants the money and has told her son to go and get it from you.

My view is not to give it to him. Tell him that he can come to you anytime for support, to go food shopping, you'll buy him clothes, you won't give him money.

Also as someone else said, leave a phone with a college friend or his tutor to use and give back to them before he goes home. That way he knows it's there if he needs to speak to you or another friend without her knowing about it. Maybe having that bit of privacy and freedom may lead to him wanting more?

My god, I can't believe what I've just read. I'm so sorry purplelampshades,

I'm surprised that you are still upright and managing to put one foot in front of the other after going through this for so long with no resolution or improvement.

Your son will thank you one day for everything you've done. He can't see it now, but when he's older and wiser he'll know what you went through to try and protect him.

I also have to congratulate you on managing to keep your hands off of her neck.

I hope he sees sense very soon and comes back home 🤞 sending love to you x

Nope! Don't give him it. If you do, you're enabling her (in this case financial) abuse of him.

Giving him the money is enabling the girlfriend's abuse!

I would give him the money, but I’d say to him that I expect it will still cause him problems as it’s not possible to make his girlfriend happy in this type of relationship, but leave it at that. I’d also add ‘you know you can come home anytime, whatever happens.’

Also - it’s possible that it’s not for a weekend away. But you’ve probably got as much info as you’re going to get.