To think someone must be able to do something - part 3

[PurpleLampShades]

I never thought I’d be needing to start a third thread but here we are. The first two threads have been a great source of support for me so I’m going to carry on.

First Thread
Second Thread

Long story short - DS (17) has been in a “relationship” with a woman 11 years older than him that I believe started when he was 15, though I have no proof as they deny it. This has been going on since at least March 2022. SS, the police and the DSL at his college have all been involved and things from that front have been pretty much exhausted. He has been on CIN and early intervention plans, been visited/spoken to by the police, offered workshops, counselling, contact centre etc. The main stumbling blocks are DS’s refusal/inability to recognise the abusive and toxic situation he is in and the resulting refusal to engage with services to extract him from it.
She is abusive, manipulative and extremely controlling. She has isolated him almost entirely from friends, family and hobbies. She is destroying his self esteem, confidence and self-worth. She controls his phone, who he speaks to, where he goes, what he does. I know she has slapped him around the face more than once and was seen to put her hand around his throat while they were kissing once. I don’t know if there are other incidents like that. The remaining protective factor is that he is still managing to attend college, although attendance is a bit of a concern.

I am at the point of not really knowing what to do now. I feel like I’ve lost him.

I am so sorry to read your update - it is truly heartbreaking and I can feel your pain in your written words.

Maybe try again meeting them both - in a neutral place, not at yours and maybe could you invite a friend to be with you?

I saw DS yesterday. He turned up at the house out of the blue last night. He didn’t stay long at all and didn’t want to talk about anything except the reason he came, which was to ask for a loan. He looks unwell. I am worried about him.
When I asked why he wanted a loan he eventually admitted it was for gf’s birthday because she wants him to take her away for the weekend and he hasn’t managed to save enough and can’t get a credit card at 17 (thank god) and he is now panicking about it.

I said I’d have to have a think about it overnight. I’m just not sure what to do really. He gets £150 a month plus the child benefit that I pass on to him so he gets around £250 a month. I don’t know how much or how long he’s been saving for her birthday but he asked to be loaned another £300 and he’d pay me back out of his next few months payments. I could lend it or I could just give it but I really don’t want him spending my money on her.

Do you think £250 a month is enough for him to live on? It isn’t is it? Which means he’s relying on her or in debt to her because she’s paying for him and that gives her more control over him. I thought if he didn’t have enough he might come home but I think that’s failed hasn’t it? Should I speak to the solicitor about increasing his money? Should I lend or give him this money for her birthday?

What is going to be for the best? I really don’t know and I’m torn on this. And I’m sad I couldn’t see him for longer and actually talk properly. It was clear she didn’t know he came to see me. He kept saying he was sorry he couldn’t stay and was in a hurry etc but that he wanted to see me properly and he would phone me in a few weeks. I don’t know if that was just words or if he meant it. Or if he meant it but deep down it won’t happen because she’ll make it too hard.

I'm so sorry to hear you are no further forward. I have wondered about you every now and again. He will come back, OP, when he's ready. He will know, in his heart, you are there for him.

This all makes me so sad, I've been thinking of you often.
Could you give him the money but on the condition of a weekly meetup? Perhaps the college or one of his friends could hold a phone for him to contact you, or he could email from the college computers? Could the college put something in his timetable so he could see you during a 'class'?

Personally I wouldn't lend it to him.

He's a skint student, that's normal at his age. She shouldn't be expecting expensive gifts from him that he cannot afford!! If she loved him she'd be happy with whatever he COULD afford, and know he's bettering himself with his studies meaning he will have a better lifestyle and disposable income afterwards.

If this were my child Id say I'm sorry I can't afford to lend or give any more than you do currently. If he's struggling with finances living away from home then he always has a bed and a meal at yours, as well as your unconditional love.

I'd also say that unconditional love could mean a birthday gift of a box of maltesers or a bunch of flowers would be gratefully received if that's all the buyer if the gift could afford. That its about the thought and the sentiment not the price tag. £300!! 🤬

I could rant lengthily about her right now so I can only imagine how you're feeling.

Does he have a part time job OP?

It would help him financially and give him a bit more of a window of time away from her and among other sane people. If he doesn't have one I'd suggest it. I'd imagine she'd hate it, given she doesn't like him even sat with female students.

That might be an idea. Give him the money but instead of paying it back he just needs to meet me for a coffee and a chat every week. Is that too much to ask? It’s not really is it. He did say he wanted to see me. But then, if I put conditions on it, is that controlling? I am really conscious of this now. I know she has put a worm in his ear that it’s me that’s the controlling one and I know a couple of posters here have said the same.

Any normal partner would be happy with any gift where some effort was put into it wouldn’t they? You are so right. She has such unrealistic expectations of him and it’s just another thing to use against him to control him and make him feel less than. I don’t think she actually wants him to better himself with studies. She just wants to control him.

He doesn’t have a job as far as I know. I don’t know for sure, though I’m not sure she’d be happy with that as you say, given she doesn’t want him around anyone else but her. I would love to be able to sit down with him and discuss all of this but he gets so defensive.

Although you may feel giving him the money may bring him closer and build your own relationship, I really don't think you should pay for her to be taken away. This could be an opportunity for him to finally see the flaws here for what they are and realise that he just doesn't have the means to sustain this. Of course it's a dilemma but my inclination would be not to do it. She chose a bf who can't give her the luxury holidays she wants.

OP, I think I'd given him the money, and I say this because I think if he doesn't come through she will give him more abuse.

If you can afford to give him it without him paying you back I'd do do, I wouldn't attach any conditions to it other than perhaps just asking to meet for a coffee where you want to give him it as his birthday gift (I wouldn't put repeat visits as a condition as she will use it against you and say its controlling.) If you could afford it I'd maybe give him another cheap pay as you go mobile if he does agree to meet you and keep any conversation to subjects away from his girlfriend. She has you painted as the enemy to him, don't provide her anything to fuel that perception.

I feel for you and your poor DS, but maybe this can be a way in to open up commutation between you too. If he agrees to the coffee perhaps a topic you could discuss is increasing his monthly money but I wouldn't agree to do it by a lot maybe another £50-100 as I suspect it would go right into her pocket. It may help you get some information on what he's doing with his money already and what she is funding or expecting in return from him.

Basically you need to come across as supportive to him, that doesn't mean you need to support her, I'd actually be very grey rock about her, you can't win no matter what you say when it comes to her, your son needs to see the situation for what it is and want change/help himself. Be clear he always has a home with you and your door is always open for him for anything at any time no matter what.

Best of luck OP to you and your poor DS

She is being totally unreasonable. He’s 17, he’s a student. I wouldn’t lend it, if he can’t book it, it might push her to realise he’s a child. I can’t believe there’s nothing you can do, coercive control etc. Good luck op. X

Honestly, if you can afford it, I'd give it to him. He came to you. And I'd want to be the person he can come to.

Fuck what it's for, don't give that headspace.

I think it's really good news that he came to you, even fleetingly.

Hi Purple, I do often wonder how you are getting on.

I'm totally with Hickry on this.

Plus, nothing has changed, he still exhibits the same behaviour in that he refused to talk and would only stay long enough to ask for money.

It's particularly galling considering he totally ignored your last Birthday. No excuses for this, he could have popped a card/small gift through the letterbox as he did the previous year.

As for asking to meet up, regardless of what he promises, and I suspect right now he'll promise anything, the visits won't happen, deep down you must know this.

I absolutely would not give him the money or increase his allowance as this just enables the relationship.

I cannot believe he is still putting you through this xx

He trusted that you would react well to him asking. That is a good sign he thinks you are reacting consistently well to him. I'd give him the money and see if he would be open to you dropping into college every 2 weeks. Baby steps x

I would not give him it, he is completely controlling you now OP, give it once he will continually keep asking. Tell him to get a job or ask his gf for the money instead. He made his bed he can lie in it.

Hi purple. I've been following this since the start under different names, glad you started another thread.

I don't know what to advise about the money, however if it was my child I think I'd NOT try to be strong in front of him, show emotion and cry. Let him know you miss him and how hard this is for you. Tell him you don't want to give him money and then have him disappear on you again. I know if I thought I was causing my parents loads of heartbreak it would stir up guilt in me.

Seems like it is somewhat even on giving or not giving him the money. I was hoping for a landslide opinion to tell me what to do to be honest. Everyone makes important points that make sense but, ahhhhh, what do I do? Im fighting a losing battle really aren’t I? It doesn’t really matter what I do because either way he isn’t coming home. Which one is safer for him do you think?

I'd not give the money.

I know he's being controlled but I'd risk her getting very pissed off with him to hopefully rock the boat.
Something has to give.

He's only come to you for money which is heartbreaking but also extremely manipulative and no doubt orchestrated by her whims.

I would not play into their hands.

Could you negotiate giving him a smaller amount? 300 is a lot on a weekend for her….

I initially read your post and thought no way on earth would I give him money to spend on her but I’d worry about it causing an even bigger drift between you and DS.

As a condition of the loan, could you ask him to be in regular contact with a family member of his choosing? An aunt/uncle/cousin he used to be close to?
And explain to him that it would give you a little peace of mind as you just worry so much when you don't hear from him.

@PurpleLampShades Which one is safer for him do you think?

I would say giving him the money is safest for him.

If he looked unwell when you saw him, the situation must be really worrying him and if he's risked coming to your house to ask you, he may be pretty desperate.

We all know the rights and the wrongs of this whole mess but to be honest, if this was my 17 year old child, I would give them the money - I wouldn't like it, but I'd do it.

If you don't give him the money, I don't think it's going to change his mind about leaving her and that he'll just come home again .... and is it going to make things worse for him?

I don't think he's going to be thinking straight when he's so anxious (not that he's thinking straight anyway!!) but he's come to you because he knows you're on his side

It's such an impossible situation and who knows what the 'right' thing to do is? - just look at all the different responses here.

All you can do is trust your heart ........ but this may be the first step in him realising that he can't go on living like this.

I think this @PurpleLampShades. Be the person he can come to. Let him feel safe and supported by you. Don’t put conditions on it just support him. I’d even suggest if he needs more money that you will make it available but he’ll have to come and get it from you. Keep some cash in the house and give it to him (depending on what it’s for) there and then. This might keep lines of communication open and reiterates the message that he can depend on you.

Honestly why are you even entertaining this from him. At the point he asked you for a loan, did you not sit down and ask him if he thinks this is what his life should be ? Ask him some really hard questions where he can't duck and dive from the truth? You are so scared of losing him, but it seems like he doesn't care anyway ? I wouldn't pander and lend him the money. Once you do, then that's opened the door for more manipulation from him.

You wanted someone to do something, why can't it be you? Confront him about being slapped around? Ask him if that's ok with him? Ask him some really hard questions. You are still the parent here. I think you just need to leave him to make his own mistakes. Wish him well, tell him you're there if he chooses to leave but you won't be in the middle of this toxic relationship. What do you have to lose? He has already left in any case.

Agree

I have thought about this since you posted earlier because I don’t honestly know what the best answer is.

where I have arrived is that I would give him the money, I think if you don’t then it will push him even further away. I do think it’s a positive that he feels he can still come to you so he does see you as safe and I would try and keep it that way.

i don’t think you should add any conditions to it so don’t say you can have it as long as you meet me every week etc. but I do think you should reiterate that you miss him and would really like if you could meet up for a coffee or something similar (whatever you think he will go for) maybe just a ‘I love you and miss you and would absolutely love it if we could have a catch up over a brew, I can meet you whenever is best for you or you’re welcome here as you always are, please know that I will always be here for you’

I know in a normal situation you wouldn’t give him money like this and I know that you really don’t want the money benefitting her but I think to keep any connection with your son then you have to.

i truly hope this hell is over soon and that your relationship with your son is back to where it was