For stopping schizophrenic uncle from seeing newborn?

[Emily19932]

Hi
My newborn daughters uncle (her dads brother) is schizophrenic. He has been hospitalised for the past 2 years in psychiatric ward but he is now allowed out every Saturdays under the observation of his mum. He has to be in hospital full time as his anti psychotic medication is injected. He hears voices and often talks to himself and about spirits etc.

A few months ago when he came home he pushed his mum down the stairs which put her in hospital as “the voices told him to” he also pulled a kitchen knife out on his brother again because the voices told him to. He will often talk to himself and when asked who he is talking to he will say the voices. He sent me a very nasty text a few weeks ago telling me to kill myself, I messaged him back asking why on earth he’d say that and he said and I quote “sorry that wasn’t me, the man in my head wrote that I’m really sorry I hope you’re ok”

Please don’t get me wrong I understand schizophrenia is a serious mental illness and that this is not his fault, but even so I feel like he could pose a very real risk to newborn daughter and that he could suddenly turn on the flick of a switch. When he has had episodes it’s as if he develops super human strength so if he was to do something I don’t believe his mum, dad or brother could stop him because he is so strong in these episodes and is very large stature wise.

My partner (her dad) is in the marines and he’s currently not in the country. His mum has been having the baby for the day on Saturdays. She’s recently asked if it’s ok if uncle see’s her this coming Saturday as he has day release. I’ve told her due to his past actions I don’t want him to but when or if he starts getting better I am happy for him to. He is clearly not better hence the text he sent me the other day. I am very terrified that if he is in the same place as my daughter he could turn on her and try to harm her and his mum would be powerless to stop him.

Shes told me I am being unreasonable because he’d never hurt a child, I understand that in a sane state of mind he wouldn’t harm anybody but he’s already tried to harm his family because of these voices so what’s to say these voices won’t command him to harm my baby.

AIBU?

YANBU to want to be cautious and to protect your child but you should try videos calls or letters and photos so he doesn’t feel cut off from his niece. Having relationships and being included is a big part of managing schizophrenia.

My Brother has schizophrenia and has had periods similar to where your BIL is now, many years sectioned in hospital and some very dangerous behaviour. He is currently home (lives with my mum) but still has periods where we stay away for a while if he’s struggling. His relationship with my children is wonderful and he loves them deeply which is something I cherish and they love him and enjoy spending time with him when they can.

Tell her you’re not prepared to be in a situation where the ward where he is staying report his contact with your child to social services, prompting an assessment of your parenting and capacity to protect

I agree with @DressingRoom . Cancel that particular Saturday’s visit so that your baby’s safe and your MIL can see her son if she wishes.

Your baby is your priority, not anyone else’s feelings. It’s also completely understandable that your MIL would like to see her son though (he was her baby after all) so make it easy for everyone.

And for posters who believe the hospital can assess the risk, sorry no they cant be relied on fully. Not when a babies life and safety is at risk.

Many instances of people, usually men, being released from psychiatric wards after erratic and aggressive behaviour, and been told there is no more risk and within a few days or weeks they have murdered or attacked someone or harmed themselves .

It’s not an exact science or a guarantee, so the health professional can’t say for sure.

As a parent the baby is your priority and responsibility to assess. You really need to ask yourself if you‘re comfortable with the situation and the risk.

I dont understand tis comment?
I have had several family members in the Royal Marines and we as a family refer to the "Marines"?
Didnt realise it was an Americanism?
What are we meant to say?

I’m amazed that your MIL thinks this is ok, having been pushed down the stairs by her son and hospitalised a few months ago!
What if he did the same while she was holding the baby?

WARNING- upsetting Info in link. Please don't open the link if this is likely to upset you. It is a list of murders committed by mental health patients in the north-east that resulted in inquiries. What is striking is how many are delusional and/or schizophrenic and under treatment and murdered their mother or wife.

I wouldn't allow anyone being treated as an inpatient for Schizophrenia near my children, knowingly. What if he hurts his mother while she's looking after your child? What if the voices tell him to hurt your child?

I wouldn't let your MIL have the baby on days he may be there. I can't believe, after he pushed her down the stairs, that she can even ask you.

https://www.hundredfamilies.org/the-victims/north-east-england/

Of course YANBU

If he really wants to feel 'involved', set up a video call.

YANBU- it would be a hard no from me with no consideration and 0 fucks given as to who thinks I'm being unreasonable. Your MIL may find it difficult to accept but his condition is not under control hence the other violence- how would she feel if she pushed you in to allowing this and he did something to harm your daughter because it would be her at fault.

Unfortunately I just wouldn’t risk it doing a meet at your MILs home, or having her look after baby same day as your BIL is there. Whilst it’s great that your BIL is now being able to take some Section 17 leave (which indicates he’s slowly improving) he’s will still be pretty unwell if currently still needing to be under care at a MH hospital as beds are at total crisis point. The point being you won’t know version of him you are going to get on the day. That being said (and depending on how long he is expected to be there) whilst the MH hospitals are not the most relaxing of environments you might want to consider whether you and your DP go visit him at hospital with the baby - in the hospital itself there is a high staff ratio and is secure enough that no sharps/other things that can cause injury are around. It’s been my experience that most loved ones with schizophrenia are a risk to themselves rather others - my mum has paranoid schizophrenia and is currently sectioned in hospital, but when she’s been stable she’s fantastic with her GCs. Stability is key.

It is very worrying that he is having his medication under supervision but it is not helping him. Are the carers aware of the incidents you describe, and if so why are they still allowing unsupervised home visits when he is clearly not stable.

YANBU I can see why you are worried

No.

It's a safeguarding issue.

No school or nursery would allow someone who they knew was like this to pop in for a visit would they?

Don't be emotionally blackmailed , your duty is to keep that child safe.

I wouldn't allow baby to go to MIL as she sounds likely to break your boundaries on this. What she doesn't know won't hurt her etc

Your child, your terms, they can like it or lump it. If the BIL was in his right mind (and I know it's not his fault, just unlucky) he would totally understand your concerns and priorities.

I’m not sure why he’s still allowed out under observation of his mum when his mum clearly has no control over him. What if he’d left the house after he’d pushed his mum down the stairs and hurt someone? He could easily have killed her….it’s only luck that he didn’t.

I’d be very very careful that she didn’t let him see your baby secretly.

You have to be there if he sees your baby. I would also want a large friend to be there if DH can't. Or just refuse scary really.

If you need back up on this, you could talk to health visitor or GP and then tell MIL 'I've had advice on this and...' or you can quote the collective wisdom of MN and tell her it was from a HV ; )

sorry if this is insensitive, but if he is pushing people downstairs, threatening with knives and sending death threats why on earth is he being let out on day release?

Has his family reported these incidents back to the hospital?

I personally wouldn't be anywhere near him, never mind my new-born

Bless you - I totally understand why you are so concerned. If you are able to do so, please ring the hospital and speak to the psychiatric team for advice. Failing that, your own GP - they should be able to support you. Perhaps a compromise would be to arrange a supervised visit to the hospital at some point, but only if you feel willing and able.

@Emily19932 I’d be very curious to know what BILs team at hospital would say about this potential scenario - has MIL consulted them before suggesting allowing him to be around a baby?
either way, it’s absolutely your right to say you’re not comfortable with it, and MIL needs to accept that. I hope BILs condition starts to improve soon

I wouldn't do it. Trust your gut. He is mentally unstable and your daughter relies on your completely for protection.

No Way would I let this happen

YANBU

@NoTouch It does sound very risky for him to be seeing his mum/out at all if he did that stuff just a few months ago.

@NoTouch

That's what I'm wondering as well. Do the hospital know? If they do, why are they still letting him go home?

Do you have a large friend that would be willing to come to protect you from a knife welding person with schizophrenia?

That would be some friend!

Not at the moment, you're correct. Don't trust the mother if you are slightly concerned she will not adhere to your wishes.