For stopping schizophrenic uncle from seeing newborn?

[Emily19932]

Hi
My newborn daughters uncle (her dads brother) is schizophrenic. He has been hospitalised for the past 2 years in psychiatric ward but he is now allowed out every Saturdays under the observation of his mum. He has to be in hospital full time as his anti psychotic medication is injected. He hears voices and often talks to himself and about spirits etc.

A few months ago when he came home he pushed his mum down the stairs which put her in hospital as “the voices told him to” he also pulled a kitchen knife out on his brother again because the voices told him to. He will often talk to himself and when asked who he is talking to he will say the voices. He sent me a very nasty text a few weeks ago telling me to kill myself, I messaged him back asking why on earth he’d say that and he said and I quote “sorry that wasn’t me, the man in my head wrote that I’m really sorry I hope you’re ok”

Please don’t get me wrong I understand schizophrenia is a serious mental illness and that this is not his fault, but even so I feel like he could pose a very real risk to newborn daughter and that he could suddenly turn on the flick of a switch. When he has had episodes it’s as if he develops super human strength so if he was to do something I don’t believe his mum, dad or brother could stop him because he is so strong in these episodes and is very large stature wise.

My partner (her dad) is in the marines and he’s currently not in the country. His mum has been having the baby for the day on Saturdays. She’s recently asked if it’s ok if uncle see’s her this coming Saturday as he has day release. I’ve told her due to his past actions I don’t want him to but when or if he starts getting better I am happy for him to. He is clearly not better hence the text he sent me the other day. I am very terrified that if he is in the same place as my daughter he could turn on her and try to harm her and his mum would be powerless to stop him.

Shes told me I am being unreasonable because he’d never hurt a child, I understand that in a sane state of mind he wouldn’t harm anybody but he’s already tried to harm his family because of these voices so what’s to say these voices won’t command him to harm my baby.

AIBU?

your first job as a mother is to keep your child safe. That means assessing risk and making decisions. If you have assessed him as not sufficiently safe to meet your daughter then that is it. No more discussion necessary. Do not let anybody guilt trip you into ignoring your instincts as what you think is in the best interests of your baby.

I've known people with schizophrenia who were no threat to anyone except possibly themselves when they got themselves into dangerous situations (like wandering down the middle of a road). Your BIL is not one of these, and you shouldn't feel in the least bit bad about keeping your baby away from him until you can see that he's a lot LOT better than he is now.

I feel sorry for your MIL who clearly just wants her own boy to have as normal and nice a family life as possible, but it's clouding her judgement severely and you need to be absolutely rigid in making sure the baby and BIL don't mix.

What does your husband say?

Another vote here for a FaceTime call with a view to a visit when he may be in a better place.

Your MIL is wrong to say you are unreasonable. But I guess it’s a very sad situation for her seeing her son miss out on so much because of his illness.

Absolutely do not allow this. Your MIL is bat shit for even thinking it much less suggesting it.

No way should he be seeing your child or even considering it until he has a very lengthy period of stability. If the hospital had any idea what MIL is planning I would expect them to make a safeguarding referral to children's services.

I can understand MIL hoping it will all go away and underplaying his risk, but I would be very wary of her and be sure she will respect your decision.

People will come on here and say if its managed its fine mental health etc etc.

But only you know what a threat this guy is and if you feel uneasy then don't risk your child's safety.

I think your stance is reasonable. Has your mil discussed this with the ward? This is information his medical should know? Sometimes they will not allow a patient on a day release to a home with minors? I think you mother-in-law should discuss with his clinical team- they will be able to explore and discuss risk.

I have a relation with this. However in our case it is completely controlled by meds and even when it wasn't there was never any harm done to others. In our situation the person sees the children but in your situation it is not safe at this time to do so

YANBU. I’m surprised he’s allowed leave to his mums address after assaulting her whilst out on leave…

Regardless, he’s sadly still unwell and has proven he is a risk to others, so it would be an absolute no from me.

This could be my son you are talking about @Emily19932 - but he won’t admit he hears voices or is ill. Sectioned or secure units for the last 3 years. Has injections. Nothing works.

You are being realistic with the dangers he may pose to your child and his mum is sticking her head in the sand.

Absolutely no way I would allow such contact to take place and if I even got a whiff she was going to go behind my back and do it anyway she’s never have my DC again.

Stick to your guns.

Absolutely not.

Do you trust your MIL not to have him round anyway, against your wishes? If not, then I would rearrange your Saturday childcare and only go to MIL if you can stay with your baby.

Seriously

Tell me you don’t understand schizophrenia without telling me you don’t understand schizophrenia 🙄

No I would not let him see the baby its not his fault but it's not safe. Perhaps when the baby's dad is home and can supervise him, otherwise no. My brother is schizophrenic but is on meds and safe around my dc but that is not the case here.

You are not being unfair or judgemental.
Your mum is being unrealistic.
You aren't punishing him because although his behavior is probably mostly or all out of his control, you need to protect the child, especially if he pushed his own mother down the stairs.
I wouldn't allow the baby to be with him even of there is another adult or adults with him because it is clear that he is very strong.
You have been very fair to say that he can see the child when his behaviour is better.

I had a parent with schizophrenia- even when delusional she was not a danger to her children as her delusions weren’t violent. There was one only time I was genuinely scared rather than worried for her. He sounds like he is in a very different place and you are right to not put the baby at risk.

Unless you have been around someone in acute psychosis you don’t realise how out of control people are. He is clearly very unwell given the long hospital stay and his delusions and actions are risky. While his m might think he would never hurt a child; that feels like she’s coming from a place of denial.

No, she can see the baby on Sunday's when. your BIL is not there.. and maybe, with time, when you and your partner are present as well as your MIL, your BIL can see your baby, but there is no compelling reason why someone who has been in a psychiatric ward for 2 years with a recent history of violence against his own family, needs to see a very young child, who has no way of protecting themselves.

Cancer doesn't generally change people's behaviour (there will be exceptions obviously).

The very fact that you are leaving your newborn baby in the care of someone who thinks this is ok - is enough for this person to never be left alone with my baby

how old is your baby?

No YANBU. It's horrendous for him and he must be suffering so much but your baby has to be kept out of harm's way and unfortunately he doesn't sound stable enough to have contact with a newborn at the moment.

For everyone's sake you can't allow this right now. If it went wrong no one involved (including uncle) would ever forgive themselves.

It doesn't matter that he'd never hurt a child under normal circumstances, he isn't fully in control if his meds aren't working properly.

You can reconsider once he's been stable for a while.

He still.managed to push his mother downstairs and write awful letters to his SIL not sure cancer patients are known for that behaviour are they?

Your responsibility and duty of care is to your helpless baby. I wouldn't be allowing it myself.

Are you in the U.K., OP?

I don’t know anyone involved with the Armed Forces who would refer to someone as being ‘in the marines’ unless they were referring to the US Marines…

Honestly I would switch her visiting day to Sunday. And visit would be fully supervised.
That way there are no "accidents" where she "forgets" he is visiting

She clearly cannot safe guard her grandchild which means:

1. No solo caring of the baby going forward
2. I would fully expect her to try and engineer a meeting against your wishes.

Should this initial visit be (by chance) uneventful your MIL will see this as "proof" you are being over the top and are wrong

You are not wrong.
I wouldn't put a child in the same room as him.
I would suggest a video call.