For stopping schizophrenic uncle from seeing newborn?

[Emily19932]

Hi
My newborn daughters uncle (her dads brother) is schizophrenic. He has been hospitalised for the past 2 years in psychiatric ward but he is now allowed out every Saturdays under the observation of his mum. He has to be in hospital full time as his anti psychotic medication is injected. He hears voices and often talks to himself and about spirits etc.

A few months ago when he came home he pushed his mum down the stairs which put her in hospital as “the voices told him to” he also pulled a kitchen knife out on his brother again because the voices told him to. He will often talk to himself and when asked who he is talking to he will say the voices. He sent me a very nasty text a few weeks ago telling me to kill myself, I messaged him back asking why on earth he’d say that and he said and I quote “sorry that wasn’t me, the man in my head wrote that I’m really sorry I hope you’re ok”

Please don’t get me wrong I understand schizophrenia is a serious mental illness and that this is not his fault, but even so I feel like he could pose a very real risk to newborn daughter and that he could suddenly turn on the flick of a switch. When he has had episodes it’s as if he develops super human strength so if he was to do something I don’t believe his mum, dad or brother could stop him because he is so strong in these episodes and is very large stature wise.

My partner (her dad) is in the marines and he’s currently not in the country. His mum has been having the baby for the day on Saturdays. She’s recently asked if it’s ok if uncle see’s her this coming Saturday as he has day release. I’ve told her due to his past actions I don’t want him to but when or if he starts getting better I am happy for him to. He is clearly not better hence the text he sent me the other day. I am very terrified that if he is in the same place as my daughter he could turn on her and try to harm her and his mum would be powerless to stop him.

Shes told me I am being unreasonable because he’d never hurt a child, I understand that in a sane state of mind he wouldn’t harm anybody but he’s already tried to harm his family because of these voices so what’s to say these voices won’t command him to harm my baby.

AIBU?

@Nonibaloni

At the same time though, his medical team have approved him for day release and on one occasion he hospitalised his mum after pushing her down the stairs and another time he pulled a knife on his brother.

I'm sorry about your DH. That is why I was asking what cancer as I could imagine that some cancers might change people's personalities.

Don't be stupid...what if he had something highly infectious like malaria but was on meds, would you be happy for him to hold your baby?

No no no no.

He hasn't hurt a child. Yet.

Please do not allow this.

I wish the OP had asked "AIBU for stopping uncle with recent history of violence from seeing newborn?" The small possibility of violence is a legitimate concern, of course it is. But the schizophrenia in itself is irrelevant.

Some people with PTSD, depression,anxiety (or no mental health problems at all) present a greater than average risk of violence. Imagine of the OP had asked "AIBU for stopping uncle with (eg) depression from seeing newborn?"
Responses would likely have been "WTF? You do realise that depression doesn't define a person or make them dangerous?!"

And yet people with schizophrenia (as numerous as people with autism) are othered, feared excluded, defined by their condition. Routinely. Without a second thought.

Mil’s comments are suspicious: she’s clearly minimising and in your position I would stop using her for childcare.

This is a great idea. Did his Mum think he'd never hurt her too?

Malaria isn't infectious, not in the sense that it's passed from person to person. A mosquito bites someone who has malaria and then bites someone else, thus passing it on (very simplified). You won't 'catch' it merely by being in the same room as a malaria sufferer.

YANBU - except for letting your MIL have your baby on Saturdays. Why do that? What if this man ‘pops by’? What if this woman judges he’s ‘been ok for a few weeks now’ and let’s him see your baby?

Protect your child - every day, including Saturdays. If MIL wants to see baby, she can visit you.

You are absolutely right. The cause isn't what's important here. It's the behaviour

Imagine of the OP had asked "AIBU for stopping uncle with (eg) depression from seeing newborn?" Responses would likely have been "WTF? You do realise that depression doesn't define a person or make them dangerous?!"

@GoodOldEmmaNess Well yes, that's how a lot of people were going to respond about this thread too- but then they read the details about his behaviour. Some still responded that way (maybe without actually reading the post.)

What sort of statement is that??? That is the most ridiculous thing ever especially when he has already harmed people. No I wouldn't trust him near a baby

Terrible answer. He is physically harming people that he loves because of a mental health issue (that sadly he can not help and I feel for him). But...he should not be around the baby at all even with strong people there. It's a very sad situation but let's be realistic about the risks here.

Your MiL is delusional if she thinks he wouldn’t hurt a child. Quite simply, through no fault of his own, your BiL is not in control of his actions. And that means he is potentially very dangerous, especially to a small baby who can’t run or protect themselves.
The fact that he sent you that message, and has badly injured his mother is proof of this. I would like to say I’m surprised he is being allowed to continue supervised visits with his mother after her assault, but having experience of MH services, I’m not in the least surprised.
You need to stand firm here OP, and protect your baby. And I would be very careful about leaving baby with MiL. She is clearly not seeing the danger here… and that could lead to very tragic consequences.
And maybe have a chat with your health visitor….

She’s a woman so the ‘feminist’ angle is relevant actually IMO, but tbf that was more of a general point. We see countless examples of women being pushed to change their answer to decisions they’ve made where men don’t face this as much . This includes within families.

In relation to your specific post I was pointing that most men would easily overpower the two adults ( females) most likely to be with the baby at the time but even if you weren’t expecting the MIL to be one of the adults on hand , two still doesn’t seem sufficient given what we’ve been told about the BIL.

As i was saying that in this case the BIL is especially strong so it would need a team of quite powerful adults ready to restrain. Strictly speaking it possibly could be done but doesn’t seem practical considering it’s not really necessary for the baby to meet his uncle at this young age. And even then I remember watching a true crime story in America where the accused managed to run across the courtroom and managed to slash the witness (who was the victim ) across the face. It took several burly trained bailiffs to wrestle him off the woman. It’s really hard to prevent these things from happening if a grown fit strong and mentally unstable man gets it in their head that’s what they want to do.

The risk is far too great and it seems massively impractical and not a great environment having to gather a team of adults to be there on standby together each time the brother wants to see the baby.
That is my main point.

I don’t think it’s unusual for a royal marine to be referred to as in the marines - that’s how our neighbours refer to their nephew and regardless of whether the op is in the uk or USA surely the same advice would still stand.

op you are under no obligation to allow any visitor or relative access to your baby that you are uncomfortable with. Your mil has clouded judgement as she is still in denial about her sons illness and for that reason I would ensure she doesn’t have unsupervised access for all of your sakes. It could also be seen as a potential safeguarding issue from a social services point of view . Good luck op but go with your gut

The unit should surely be involved with any information that a child may be present?

This isn't my field, but I'd expect it's entirely possible that the unit have explained what is and isn't appropriate as a condition of him being allowed to visit

Unfortunately that won't stop some thinking they know better, and I'm not sure what can be done about that - unless anyone thinks mentioning this to them would be worthwhile?

@porridgeisbae,I take your point, but it is not only those misguided replies that are heartbreaking, it is the thread title itself. It accurately reflects what very many people think.
My two pennies worth of advice for the op is that you need to feel able to ask enough questions to get a handle on the nature and level of the risk.
Violent outbreaks aren't random They will be associated with the level of illness at a particular time, the particualar stresses and triggers, etc. There is a level of predictability and it may well be possible for those who know him well to say with confidence that he is no risk to a newborn. Or that he is not a risk today. etc etc.
If the hospital is doing its job (admittedly that is a big if) his day release will only go ahead on the basis of risk assessments and health assessments.

Jeez no way! Absolutely not a chance. If he’s capable of pushing his own mum down the stairs and pulling a knife on his brother, he obviously isn’t in a state where he can be around a newborn. It would be extremely dangerous and I honestly can’t believe your MIL would put her gd in such a potentially dangerous situation.

Don't give in to this. Make sure you keep your Dd safe. I’d be wary of MIL having your child whilst your BIL is on release, unless you know you can fully trust her to not introduce your Dd to her son.

I can understand his mum wanting him to see the baby, thinking it will bring joy and hope, but you are also a mother and have a strong instinct to protect your child. Trust your instincts. I do feel heart sorry for his mum for her son to be this way but thats not you're problem.

I was all ready to say YABU, but blimey, of course YANBU.

That's her son so of course your MIL wants to believe he would never hurt a child, I'm sure your BIL is a good person who would never consider such a thing when he was well but at the moment he can not be trusted. It's not his fault but that wouldn't change the outcome if he became seriously unwell when your baby was there. If your DC was injured none of you would ever be able to forgive yourselves, why risk your DC's wellbeing and your family relationships. Keep your baby at home Op

YANBU. You need to see if you can get hold of your partner and get him to tell his mum it’s not happening. But I wouldn’t be giving her the baby in any Saturday now just in case he is released and she doesn’t tell you

Yanbu and I wouldn’t let the baby be round the Mil’s either as she is not a good risk assessor and is biased

There is another take on this OP.
You have the responsibility to safeguard your child and if for instance, he so much as grabs her, questions will be asked of you re whether you adequately safeguarded your baby.

How are you going to explain to social services that you felt it was safe to have your newborn in the company of a man who has recently pushed someone down the stairs and pulled a knife on someone else?

When risk assessing you look at the likelihood of the event happening (probably medium/high risk, given his recent violent behaviour) and also the risk that could be sustained from the event (in this case potentially catastrophic).

Tell your mother it is non of her business.