For stopping schizophrenic uncle from seeing newborn?

[Emily19932]

Hi
My newborn daughters uncle (her dads brother) is schizophrenic. He has been hospitalised for the past 2 years in psychiatric ward but he is now allowed out every Saturdays under the observation of his mum. He has to be in hospital full time as his anti psychotic medication is injected. He hears voices and often talks to himself and about spirits etc.

A few months ago when he came home he pushed his mum down the stairs which put her in hospital as “the voices told him to” he also pulled a kitchen knife out on his brother again because the voices told him to. He will often talk to himself and when asked who he is talking to he will say the voices. He sent me a very nasty text a few weeks ago telling me to kill myself, I messaged him back asking why on earth he’d say that and he said and I quote “sorry that wasn’t me, the man in my head wrote that I’m really sorry I hope you’re ok”

Please don’t get me wrong I understand schizophrenia is a serious mental illness and that this is not his fault, but even so I feel like he could pose a very real risk to newborn daughter and that he could suddenly turn on the flick of a switch. When he has had episodes it’s as if he develops super human strength so if he was to do something I don’t believe his mum, dad or brother could stop him because he is so strong in these episodes and is very large stature wise.

My partner (her dad) is in the marines and he’s currently not in the country. His mum has been having the baby for the day on Saturdays. She’s recently asked if it’s ok if uncle see’s her this coming Saturday as he has day release. I’ve told her due to his past actions I don’t want him to but when or if he starts getting better I am happy for him to. He is clearly not better hence the text he sent me the other day. I am very terrified that if he is in the same place as my daughter he could turn on her and try to harm her and his mum would be powerless to stop him.

Shes told me I am being unreasonable because he’d never hurt a child, I understand that in a sane state of mind he wouldn’t harm anybody but he’s already tried to harm his family because of these voices so what’s to say these voices won’t command him to harm my baby.

AIBU?

Just NO. He can see the baby on a video call. He can't control himself

I know 2 people with schizophrenia, well I know their relatives who have been in the same position as you.

first and foremost talk to his medical team. They are the people that know him best and see him all day every day. Depending on how his day release works his mum should have easy contact. - whether you believe what she tells you is a different matter.

one Family, the baby visit the aunt, but with mum dad granny and grandad. It’s stage managed and she doesn’t get to hold the baby or hold anything while the baby (who is 5 now) is there. I know the parents felt terrible in the early days but now the aunt gets huge amount from these very brief visits and lots and lots of photos.

the other it’s been back and forward, when he’s well everything is fine, when he’s not well he can’t have contact with the children until his doctors says he’s been stable for a while.

In this instance, I would only allow him to see my baby if I were there with her.

No, absolutely not.
Ensure mil follows your rule too.
I had to do a stint on a psychiatric ward and a tiny old lady ripped my dress from the neck to the waist in her confusion.

I'm sure your MIL would have said he would never hurt his own mother until he did

@Emily19932 I wouldn't even let the mum have the child on a Saturday on her own, as she could just let him come round and you wouldn't know or be able to do anything about it.

You're not wrong to think he could physically hurt the baby. He's already physically hurt people. I wouldn't even be happy if he was more well, as he could get more ill again at any time (unless maybe it's, like, a year stable on a new dose of the meds.) His comment to you proves he's still quite unstable.

I say this as someone who has a severe MH condition myself.

The child's safety has to be your first/only responsibility and their wellbeing your only consideration rather than the family's/the uncle's feelings etc.

I really wouldn't want him anywhere near a baby.
Maybe when he is more stable, he could have supervised visits but it's too early for that.

I wasn't suggesting the "older woman" to be "another adult present" in this scenario. I am just pointing out that there are ways to manage risks if all parties wanted for this visit to happen. It has nothing to do with saying no or being kind, there is no need to bring feminist angle to this at all.
For what it's worth, I would be uncomfortable to have elderly mother to be looking after the baby at all given her poor awareness of risks and potential for her to override OP's decision.

Very few people with schizophrenia are violent or threaten people, but he is one of those few. YANBU. It’s not worth the risk. His mother has no idea what he could or would do if he has a psychotic episode.

Not in a million, billion years would I allow him near my baby.

More to the point, I wouldn’t dream of allowing the mother to have any further unsupervised contact with the baby - she clearly has inadequate judgement when it comes to keeping your baby safe. Her love for her son, and probably her wish for some normality around him, clouds her ability to keep your baby safe. How long until you find out she has had him there while caring for your baby and not told you? The fact that she has even asked this, that she would be ok with him being around your baby, would be for me the immediate end of the trusting arrangement you have with her now. She isn’t realistic about the risk her son poses.

Yanbu at all.

like you say, he can meet the baby when he is more stable. It’s just too risky at the moment. It would take a split second to act on a voice and hurt a baby seriously.

Someone has to be very ill to be permanently in a unit. @Emily19932 Lots of people have the injections, a nurse comes out to give them or they pop in somewhere to get them, but they live in the community. So he must be pretty ill.

Of course he wouldn't want to hurt your child. Same as he wouldn't want you to kill yourself. It's the voices in his head that you don't trust as they've previously proven that he can be provoked to violence. Its not hia fault but the poor nloke clearly isnt safe to be arouns right now. His mum is desperately concerned for her own baby (understandable) but it's causing her to wear blinkers when it comes to the safety of your baby. You need to say no, obviously. But everyone should also want that for the benefit of the brother - God forbid something awful happened, surely he would feel tortured forever and his recovery would be massively compromised. He needs to be kept safe situations too.

I was ready to respond to say the diagnosis doesn't in itself mean it would be a risk and is context dependent. However, in this circumstance I would say no YANBU it would not be appropriate or safe for your baby to be around him and I would not allow this given the safety concerns and what has happened previously.

JFC.

No from a safeguarding point of view, it’s not safe for your DD to be with him.

It sounds like he was on medication when he pushed his mother down the stairs, and when he pulled a knife on his brother.

I'd compare this more to someone who, say, frequently passed out without any warning and was unsteady on their feet. Should they carry a newborn down the stairs, or is that an unnecessary risk. It's not their fault, that doesn't make it safe.

Can you stop visitation to the her on Saturdays? I don't think I'd take the risk.

She's clearly not capable of seeing his illness clearly, probably due to being his Mum.

I think I'd just point out to her that just as she prioritises her children, your job is to prioritise the safety of yours and that seeing as 'voices' have recently told him to push her down stairs, pull a knife on his brother and tell you to kill yourself, you do not consider it wise to allow him access to a new born.

You really need to think about whether you trust her to follow your wishes, OP.

At the end of the day, saying no may cause a bit of anger but saying yes could be catastrophic.

Oh god no I wouldn't. Very sorry for the uncle but the child is innocent and unable to protect itself - you'd never forgive yourself if anything happened.

I would probably allow it if both you and your dh were there, but your MIL is totally unreasonable to be annoyed with you - it's pretty easy to understand your feelings on this. He just sent you a text telling you to kill yourself for Christ's sake!

YANBU. Given his behaviour I would not allow him around children because if he hears voices no one can control what theses “voices” will say about a child.

While I sympathise with his mother dealing with this, and the uncle experiencing this, you and your DH are responsible to keep your child safe. Stig to guns and don’t allow it.

His mum has been having the baby for the day on Saturdays

Is this on her own or with you there?
Because if it's the first I'd say her claim that you're "being unreasonable because he’d never hurt a child" suggests you couldn't trust her to keep them apart

And keeping them apart is clearly essential until he's more stable. Nobody suggests for an instant the illness is somehow his fault, but you don't take chances like that with precious children

A video call is a good idea.

What does your husband say ( assuming you are able to contact him and he is not on a deployment where you can't routinely talk to him. ) what is his relationship with his brother and mother ?

Of course it isn't worth the risk. I wouldn't even let his Mum have the baby on her own. Far far too risky.

@Emily19932 Shes told me I am being unreasonable because he’d never hurt a child.

You're not being unreasonable at ALL, please don't let this man one hundred radius from your toddler.

I wouldn't let him near my child.