To think you can't behave however you want because of MH issues?

[insertanswerhere]

DH is struggling atm with MH issues. He's usually such a lovely, lively person but at the moment our life stresses are causing him to be irritable, moody...basically hard to be around. He'll get mad at me about anything, raise his voice at me and the kids, make the home environment not a nice place to be. I know it's because he's feeling like he can't cope at the minute so I'm not saying anything and trying to take on as much as I can myself so that he doesn't have to. But does he have the right to be unkind to everyone because he's struggling? Do I just have to put up with it so that I'm being supportive? How can I say, without making things worse, that he can't go on behaving in this way? (He's currently getting help for his issues but it's early days).

'Services' aren't readily available. I think the current wait time for talking therapies on the NHS is about three years!

And medication is NOT for everyone, due to the catalogue of side effects - mental and physical - associated with them. These are not drugs I'd suggest people take lightly.

I know. It can take years to be seen and medication can have side affects. I hear what you're saying.

That doesn't give him a free pass to be a bastard to his family though and a swine to live with.

I think the OP just needs to look at if he's willing to seek help and change or if this is how he's going to be.

I think if you can't reduce or remove the stresses that are affecting him then he needs to move out while he gets help. This is not a healthy environment for your children if he is constantly angry and shouting.

What are the stresses that he is struggling to cope with?

Would you ask the same of someone who had cancer?

It is very easy to access mental health services in the States. But when you access those services, they will not allow you to use drugs while in treatment. They will expect you to get clean, they will expect you to obey the law and they will expect you to TRY to put yourself together. This silly lie that we don't have access to medical and mental health care in the US is transparent propaganda. If someone wants help, there are many, MANY ways to get it.

People CHOOSE to remain on the streets because they prefer to do drugs, commit crimes and live lives with no responsibilities. THAT is the majority of those living on the streets in the US. Those with devastating mental health issues are not getting help because of nonsense like "it's impossible to get mental health help in the mean ol' United States" so lets just leave them out there until they end up killing themselves, either deliberately or accidentally. Heaven forbid we actually help people who desperately need it, better to just let them fester in the streets rather than hurt their feelings by making them stop using drugs and committing crimes. Fake compassion and virtue signaling is not helpful to anyone. Ever.

Things could be different in the UK, I know NHS is a terrible mess, which is why most in the US do NOT want government healthcare. That's a whole different discussion, though.

Do people with cancer generally yell and huff at their 3-year-olds? Or create an atmosphere of walking on eggshells? I have had a family member with cancer- whom I nursed btw- and that was not my experience. Women are not therapy centres.

Of course most people would! I would shield my children as much as practically possible and indeed, I do. I have a serious illness and I do treatments with needles and IVs. It’s not something they need to witness. It’s not age appropriate. They know “mummy is poorly”.
If a person is irritable and another parent is around, then the husband needs to find a way to remove himself from any triggers. If he’s not coping, he goes to his room and shuts the door or goes for a walk or does whatever is helpful for his own health.

“Leaving” doesn’t mean moving out, it means separating the children from witnessing an unwell parent.

He'll get mad at me about anything, raise his voice at me and the kids, make the home environment not a nice place to be.

Anyway, can people please stop tagging me, since OP hasn;t even returned? The above, abuse or not, MH issues or not, isn't something I would be prepared to put up with in the long-term. I agree with @Teder that children need to be shielded. If you don't, that's fine, and clearly you all love your husbands much more than I do.

You may have 20+ years of working in mental ill health but I fundamentally disagree with this.
With all your experience, you'll know first hand that one size doesn't fit all.
As an aside, I haven't found the mental health 'professionals' I've dealt with all that supportive. The first hospital I went to discharged me... that's the night I nearly died.
So forgive me for taking what 'mental health professionals' say with a pinch of salt.

You are quite right that one size does not fit all - which is what I said in my initial post where I mentioned different types of MH problems which may result in poor behaviour. And I am sorry you have felt unsupported by professionals. It is also true that there is a massive difference in someone being slightly snappy at times or outright raging and abusive. Or it happening and motivating people to get help, or it happening and them not being bothered by it.

BUT - I have worked with over 1000 people at this stage in my career. So my observations are not just based on my own feelings, but years of involvement and observation. I have seen many instances where loved ones become the dumping ground for frustration, nasty comments and bad feeling. I have also seen parents who are finally motivated to get help for their MH because they are desperate not to affect their children - in fact, this is on of the most common motivations for people coming in to therapy. What makes the difference? Some is to do with what people tell themselves is ok or not. And if you are telling yourself that you can treat people however you want to, that is never going to be acceptable, MH issues or not.

I am a professional, years of training and experience with several degrees and diplomas mean there is no need for quotes around that term. As for pinches of salt - I personally have a massive pinch of salt for people who state they have never been helped by any of the MH professionals they have met. In my experience, these are usually people who take no responsibility for themselves and their behaviour and who are angry when they dont get the unconditional support with that they are seeking.

If the resulting behaviours were alarming and abusive, then yes. No one is obliged to stay in an unhappy relationship or subject their children to unsafe or alarming situations, and no one however ill is excused from having to take responsibility for how their behaviours are impacting on loved ones and there being inevitable consequences for these behaviours being difficult and unpleasant such as a partner no longer wanting to live with them.

If their cancer made it horrific for their children to live with, in terms of unreasonable demands; volatile moods; walking on eggshells for years on end- then yes.

I have a dear friend whose son is going through a psychotic episode at the moment. He is not a danger to himself or anyone else, so does not meet the threshold for hospital or crisis team... my friend's mental health is in the gutter, as he just gives her verbal abuse at home, and calls her up when she is out the house, telling her how shit she is.
If she kicked him out, then I would support that, as I can see what it is doing to her.

No, you can’t. It’s never acceptable or an excuse, however it can be a reason why some otherwise genuinely good people might sometimes act out of character.
Mental illness doesn’t only afflict decent people. And if you’re less than considerate to start with, let alone abusive, it can provide a handy excuse for your shitty behaviour. I grew up with a parent that used it as yet another reason to make my life hell, and another that enabled it for an easy life because I was the target. Who knows, maybe originally it was down to buying into the whole can’t help it excuse. Either way it’s not a childhood I’d wish on anyone.
By comparison I’ve met plenty of people with far more severe mh problems than my parent that successfully do everything in their power to shield their dc and have mutually supportive relationships with their partners. And I think it’s an insult to them to suggest being abusive is part of their disability.
Personally my willingness to tolerate it would depend on the frequency, and more importantly whether they were able to accept the impact on those around them and investigate and implement other ways of dealing with it that didn’t harm others. If they inflicted it on a child, I’d forgive the first time if they acknowledged it, the second time they’d be gone.
As to comparisons with physical health, absolutely I’d be equally unforgiving if they tried to inflict it on everyone else or offload the responsibility. Fortunately I’ve never known anyone eg having chemo insist their partner and children drink saltwater so they feel sick too, or a wheelchair user that insists nobody else be allowed to walk because they can’t. Likewise mental illness doesn’t grant a free pass to make everyone else feel shit too.

@Jumpingthruhoops I'm sorry, but you're dead-wrong on the notion that the adult's needs, regardless how unwell he is, take priority over a child's needs and safety.

You seem to be of the mindset that so long as the abuse isn't physical, it doesn't matter and it should be endured if the excuse is MH.

MH is serious, and should be treated as such, however, it's not carte blanche to treat people around you poorly and to behave as such is actually a huge disservice to those struggling with MH.

Someone with MH issues can still be held accountable if their behaviour negatively impacts others. My ex had a sister with MH issues and she was never held accountable for her behaviour. She kicked her dad in the face, was verbally abusive to all her family and people were walking on eggshells around her. Yet, if you said anything, it was always brushed off with "she has MH problems."

Which was true-but funnily enough, she didn't behave that way at her job or to her friends. Only to people she deemed forced to put up with her which would indicate that there's a level of control present within her to selectively choose who she's going to abuse.

Forcing someone to be accountable for their behaviour, despite their MH issues, is not the same thing as being unsympathetic to them. Wanting to create a safe, secure environment to raise your kids in where they're not being shouted at for perfectly normal things is not too much to ask.

I ask you-where would you draw the line for the DH's behaviour? At what point, do you think OP should say "enough is enough," and prioritise the mental and emotional wellbeing of her children and herself?

Or is any poor treatment acceptable to you if it is caused by MH issues and doesn't fall into physical violence?

OK, whatever you say...

Well, no, because unless it's brain cancer, they will be in full control of their behaviour. Someone mentally unwell won't. As we've said. Repeatedly.

He doesn't want a 'free pass'... he wants help. Since we've established that could be difficult to obtain, best we just kick him out, eh?
🙄

100% this!!

Nope, you're right. Those with mental health need to shape up or ship out. Got it! 👍

'I personally have a massive pinch of salt for people who state they have never been helped by any of the MH professionals they have met. In my experience, these are usually people who take no responsibility for themselves and their behaviour and who are angry when they dont get the unconditional support with that they are seeking.'

What I actually said was: 'I haven't found the mental health professionals I've dealt with all that supportive'. So quite some leap you've made from that to 'never been helped by any mental health professional I've met.'

I can only speak as I have found and I have found that NHS mental health services are virtually non-existent. The staff I encountered couldn't have been less supportive. So I had no choice but to take responsibility for myself... and was forced to use my medical insurance and 5k of my own money to be treated in a private hospital. If that isn't taking responsibility for oneself I don't know what is.

The medical staff and therapists at the private hospital were amazing and totally saved my life. I realise I'm one of the lucky ones.

Why are you being passive aggressive about it? At some level the adults have to decide if it’s OK for children to be deprioritized so that someone with mental health difficulties can be centered in the family system.

Of course the answer is “it depends” but from your replies I am reading that your view is (a) it’s offensive to mention the negative impact on the children and (b) the line is in the region of psychotic plus violent?
If that’s not your view then people are here and listening, if that is your view people are also listening to why you hold those views.

Outrageous for people to make excuses for an adult at the detriment of another adult but completely vile for them to be trivialising the effect of a small child being dragged into this. You’re setting individuals up for a lifetime dealing with childhood trauma. Protect children! Put them first!

as it’s been pointed out many times before these people manage to hold it together in work and other spaces. They get comfortable at home and feel their family just has to take it and there will be zero consequences.

Let them know there will be consequences and follow through with it.

As a former educator I’ve witnessed so many children be riddled with anxiety, struggle to form friendships , underachieve or in some cases bully other kids as a result of this kind of home life. The ripples of this are far reaching.

I’ve struggled with depression , OCD and anxiety since I was 10. I’m also ND. And I’ll say it - some people use mental health as an excuse to be incredibly self absorbed, manipulative and even quite ruthless.

We’re reading on this thread posters imply someone will kill themselves if they can’t use their family as an emotional punchbag or that they are being unkind if they decide that the mental health of them and their children is also important.

I had a childhood friend who would go into monologues and insist on trauma dumping every time she spoke to me, she couldn’t help it apparently but yet she doesn’t trauma dump to her male partner of 15 years because quite simply he wouldn’t tolerate it for 5 minutes. I had to cut her off because she was causing my own mental health to spiral and I have no regrets except not doing it sooner!

Stop being provoked. It is shitty to be on the receiving end of this but it is not personal. When you are able to turn your emotions off and just see it as part of illness, then you can approach this without triggering further outbursts.
I don't know why but I find this frightening that someone who is being abused could read this.
Basically to a victim 'its your fault, if something happens you're provoking them, they can't help it, stop being upset by what they do you're making it worse, you're the trigger for any outbursts'?

What mental health problems does he have? It really is dependent on what is wrong with him.
Hopefully the medication and treatment will help him. It must be very hard for both of you.

So true, and of course putting the responsibility on children not to trigger further angry outbursts does make me wonder is this less mental health and more character/personality.
I think the best answer to that is just a plain No!

@Jumpingthruhoops please answer my question.

At what point, is someone allowed to draw a line and say that they’re prioritising their children’s and their own mental and emotional well-being?

Or again, do you think people should have to simply endure whatever treatment they receive, short of physical abuse, so long as the excuse is mental health?

Why are you so against people with MH issues being held accountable for their bad behaviour?

And there is something stunningly selfish and backwards about prioritising the needs on an adult over the needs of a child.