To think you can't behave however you want because of MH issues?

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DH is struggling atm with MH issues. He's usually such a lovely, lively person but at the moment our life stresses are causing him to be irritable, moody...basically hard to be around. He'll get mad at me about anything, raise his voice at me and the kids, make the home environment not a nice place to be. I know it's because he's feeling like he can't cope at the minute so I'm not saying anything and trying to take on as much as I can myself so that he doesn't have to. But does he have the right to be unkind to everyone because he's struggling? Do I just have to put up with it so that I'm being supportive? How can I say, without making things worse, that he can't go on behaving in this way? (He's currently getting help for his issues but it's early days).

It's a bit odd that people are "allowed" to have common mental health conditions like depression and anxiety, yet they simultaneously are not "allowed" to display common symptoms of those conditions, such as irritability, impatience, lack of perspective, anger, frustration, inability to empathise, emotional instability, etc, etc, and if they have the temerity to exhibit any of these, they are an "excuse".

It's mind-boggling the degree of ignorance that still persists around perfectly common mental illnesses.

Nobody would dare tell someone with a broken hip they are using it as an "excuse" for being unable to walk, yet someone in the grip of a depression or suffering through a period of extreme anxiety is supposed to just carry on as usual and display none of the common symptoms, or else they're a nasty, abusive bastard.

I despair.

...... and the effect it has on children?? Really to expect children to understand DF is angry , shouting, upset, crying and not to be affected by it leaves me in despair.

The reason for the awful behaviour may be a mh diagnosis, but that doesn't stop the stress and the hurt to the adult/child receiving the 'nasty abusive' behavior they just meant to go 'oh well that's fine, poor you, can't ask you to stop as you'll be upset'?

And the usual comparing mh to a broken limb doesn't tally.
A broken hip patient is unlikely to make others walk on eggshells around them, or be verbally abusive.

.... and also they can often control this nastiness when at work etc

I was once to pretty much do this. No one cares about how this was impacting on me. I was made out to be the unreasonable one because I dared to say I didn't like his behaviour.

When those symptoms cross the line into abuse towards others, then yes I'm afraid that no matter what your condition is, you're not "allowed" to be abusive towards your family.

@TigerRag hope you are free from that now.

You've completely misunderstood the context of that comparison.

Of course someone with a broken limb is not likely to display the symptoms of a depressed or anxious person. The entire point is that nobody rages at the person with a broken limb for displaying the symptoms of a broken limb, yet people with depression or anxiety are vilified for displaying typical symptoms of depression or anxiety.

If we were talking years down the line and he wasnt accessing help, I would say walk.

But because its early days and he is seeking help, then I would wait it out. However, it doesnt give him a reason to act like a complete dick, if he is not living alone, he needs to monitor his behaviour and its an exhausting process.

I suffer from a whole load of mental health issues, some of which cause me to be irritable, however its my problem, when it happens, I know it and I remove myself from the situation, DP was very good at calling me out on it as well, in the early days. He is/was very supportive but he drew a line in the sand at some of my behaviours and because we talked it through so often, it improved our relationship in many ways because we had to communicate.

What I am basically saying, is you need to have a conversation with him to say, I get it but I am not living on eggshells, for any length of time. Give him examples of when you have found his behaviour unacceptable. No matter how much you try and protect your child, a parent having mental health issues affects your children and if this doesnt get better, then its them you need to consider in all of this

Of course not.

My bafflement is at the people who seem to think that people who are depressed or anxious should be capable of showing no outwardly symptoms of their illness, almost as if they are not ill at all in fact.

It's still perfectly reasonable to challenge someone's behaviour and make it clear to them it isn't appropriate and will not be tolerated.

What isn't reasonable is expecting ill people to show absolutely no signs of being ill.

It's all fine and well saying someone isn't 'allowed', but that's invariably after the fact.

People with mental illnesses aren't always acting rationally, or with much consideration. That kinda goes with the territory, what with those actually being common symptoms. It's fine to tell someone they aren't behaving appropriately, but that isn't going to resolve their mental health issue because it's not a rational, considered choice made freely to act like that in the first place.

Consequences are inevitable, and, it's perfectly reasonable to remove yourself from that situation, but "allowed" doesn't come into it. People don't have to ask permission to have symptoms when they are ill.

Yes. I would turn my back on anyone who yelled at a 3 year old for doing 3 yr old things. It's the child who needs me most. Not an adult who can find coping strategies. I am not going to run around trying to sweet talk an adult.

I have had episodes of poor MH myself. I retreated to my room. Not taken it out on others.

Yes, because they can often cobble together what little reserves of mental strength they have to muddle on through a working day, knowing that it is temporary and short-lived, all the while becoming more and more stressed, anxious, and depressed at the anguish this causes, before running out of fortitude completely and dumping the inevitable outpouring of emotion at home, the one place where they should feel safe, less stressed, less anxious, and be able to decompress.

It isn't a deliberate choice to come home and be nasty to the family, contrary to what appears to be the commonly held belief.

I’m tired
I’m stressed
It was the alcohol
You made me

when your MH conditions affect others it is not a get out of jail free card

my ex blamed stress for hitting me - ok then, that’s alright

I am not yet sure whether the DH has been properly diagnosed with a MH issue or diagnosed himself. OP hasn't clarified.

What are you suggesting here @Jumpingthruhoops? I’d ask an abusive partner to leave, too. I’d put my children first and protect them from an abusive environment, whatever the cause might be.

It sounds like you’re suggesting the OP and her children put up and shut up over the way he is abusing them, because it’s ’not His fault’.

Do you really think that’s what she should do?

Mental health issues is not comparable to someone choosing to drink alcohol to the point that they are violent.

I would not even say the examples the op has provided are vile. I've been irritable, and said 'oh fgs'. I've raised my voice or yelled at my 4-5yo to 'just put your shoes on'.

Op herself says she doesn't feel he's being abusive. These things aren't 'verbal abuse'. They could be 'emotional abuse' if it was prolonged.

Now, that doesn't mean it's good. There are other ways to deal with this that don't involve making other people uncomfortable around you or risking upsetting anyone. He needs to seek this, because as others have said, long term most people aren't going to put up with this indefinitely.

That sounds incredibly familiar, OP. It’s very wearing, isn’t it- it gets so hard continually rising above it and maintaining your own equilibrium. I don’t have any advice, just solidarity. I have found though that working on my own resilience and positivity has made a huge difference, and I have inadvertently grown into a hugely more optimistic person myself, just through a determination not be be dragged in. That isn’t meant to sound cold, but I think ultimately you have three choices: leave, allow your own life to be made miserable, or find a way to thrive on your own resources. It might be different if you have children though- I don’t.

An atmosphere where everyone around him is walking on eggshells is abuse.

I often think about this. I guess in a work context, there are generally some serious consequences to being unpleasant and abusive to others, irrespective of mh conditions. That individual would have to modify behaviour in some way or be removed.

In a home situation nobody else is necessarily responsible for looking out for the duty of care to the others around the affected person, so it's a far less regulated or visible situation.

I feel that abusive behaviour is abuse regardless of what has triggered it. Nobody should be obligated to tolerate it under the guise of being supportive. A single instance can damage children permanently.

Sure it can be, but there's nothing here that isn't fixable.

It's 100% OP's choice, but all of what's mentioned can be dealt with by speaking to a therapist and maybe getting help with parenting strategies. If he returns to previous behaviour, that is the time (imo) to seriously reevaluate the relationship.

If we all were divorced every time we yelled at our child to get dressed or huffed (because one time can permanently damage) there wouldn't be many of us left.

This is really difficult and having spent the last year dealing with a family member with acute mental health issues I'm going to just put this here

It's a toxic oppressive environment to be in all the time and the hostility and egg shell walking has a massive effect on there's around the unwell person

The onus is on the person with the mental health issues to seek out the help therapy and coping mechanisms needed for them to recover not the other people around them

Yes supporting is needed however being a verbal punch bag is NOT supporting.

I'm seeing first hand the effect of the situation on the family around the unwell person who still isn't seeking the right help or guidance and has shit down to any outside help.

This is where it's really difficult and I have decided to step back somewhat because the toxicity was starting to have a massive knock on effect in my life and my families lives

I'm currently trying to help but from a distance and actually being calm when talking to the unwell person and asking them what steps they've taken this week to seek help and find coping strategies

I've been met a few times with ranting and screaming and so I've stepped back again and when the person is calm I've reminded them that their behaviour towards others is toxic and needs to be addressed and it is starting to work now

People with mental illness are often very very selfish and one dimensioned so literally will only care or think of themselves and unless someone points out the fact that their behaviour is having a negative effect on others they don't tend to even see it.

This is where they need to seek therapy or distraction techniques to help them

I know first hand how it feels when your overloaded and have had bouts of depression over the years but never to the extent of said family member but being on the receiving end of it is horrendous

This proves the post that says re the selfishness whether intentional or not.
What this is showing is they are saying then is 'I don't want to be stressed or anxious at work, so I'll repress it there and unleash at home, and you need to put up with it because I'm entitled to decompress'

So what about the right of the rest of the household to feel safe, and not stressed or anxious?

I yell at my child occasionally. I am also calm and patient, affectionate and loving for most of the time. And I apologise to my child if I've behaved badly as I don't want them to get the idea that it's ok or "justified" in some way.

The problem is when exchanges between one family member and the rest of the family become constantly characterised by uncontrolled, negative emotions. So everyone is holding back around the person as no one wants to set them off.

No one is "entitled" to decompress at home by unleashing a wave of anger, frustration and intimidation on their family members, no matter what problems they are having. It is not acceptable to use those around us as emotional punch bags, especially children. And if there are children in the house, it is the duty of all other adults who are around to stand up for them and say "no, this is not acceptable. You are being abusive towards the children and this behaviour needs to stop or you need to leave."