To think you can't behave however you want because of MH issues?

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DH is struggling atm with MH issues. He's usually such a lovely, lively person but at the moment our life stresses are causing him to be irritable, moody...basically hard to be around. He'll get mad at me about anything, raise his voice at me and the kids, make the home environment not a nice place to be. I know it's because he's feeling like he can't cope at the minute so I'm not saying anything and trying to take on as much as I can myself so that he doesn't have to. But does he have the right to be unkind to everyone because he's struggling? Do I just have to put up with it so that I'm being supportive? How can I say, without making things worse, that he can't go on behaving in this way? (He's currently getting help for his issues but it's early days).

'Depression doesn't make you abusive.'

Unfortunately, on some occasions, it can. Depression doesn't manifest the same way in everyone. Everybody's situation is different.

Sounds like he is very stressed indeed. Does he WFH? If so then working in an office might give him a change of scene and improve his mood

If he can't help it, he should remove himself. Just like if he had a dangerous infection.

I don't think it sounds like OP's husband has crossed a line into being abusive - and it's clear he's usually really nice and currently going through a hard patch. I think thinking about (or rather getting him to think about) coping mechanisms is the way forward - but also being clear that taking things out on you and the kids is not an acceptable way to deal with his problems. You don't want that to become entrenched behaviour because he's "allowed to" at the moment.

Honestly I can't be the only one thinking that they wish their other parent had drawn a clear line like that at times!

“Then they don't live with children. It isn't ok to cause MH issues in your children and abuse the other parent.”
Agreed.
So many people are using mental health as a reason for rudeness/wanting things done ASAP/selfishness. They have no idea how they’re making the other person/other people around them feel. Think the world is generally just more selfish and everyone is self-absorbed now

I'd ask him to leave if possible, and sort himself out. He can come back when he feels able to be civil.

Has he got a diagnosed mental illness or is he under stress? There is a difference. In my experience men under stress often behave like brats and take everything out on the easiest target, ie wife, kids, dog. Men are conditioned to have their brows mopped when things (even relatively minor ones) go wrong. A woman could lose her job, be threatened with eviction, care for her SN child and all whilst doing her dying mother's laundry, but she would still not be abusive to her husband.

I agree. It’s not a free pass to be a dick.

I suffer with anxiety and depression and have some really bad days. I still have self awareness and self control. It’s a load of rubbish that a person who is suffering with what the above can’t just be polite and respectful to people.

If you can be polite to a stranger when you’re out and about and you don’t want to look rude even though you’re suffering inside, then you sure as hell can be polite to your nearest and dearest too. Yes you need an outlet, but constantly snapping and getting angry is unacceptable.

Just to add to my previous post. The amount of times I read on MN about men shagging someone else, watching porn, yelling at the kids etc, etc ad nauseum all because of their "mental health issues". Maybe some of them do have genuine mental health issues but I stand by my assertion that what they are actually experiencing is stress, the sort that comes with being alive as opposed to dead! Men are conditioned to be entitled pricks.

Just reading that put me on edge but it was just one report and I'm a relaxed adult sitting in the comfort and security of my living room.

I should think it would stress you, OP, specially if that behaviour is repeated, and I'd be very concerned about how it felt to a 3 year-old who would not be able to rationalise it at all.

Regardless of how understanding you would like to be, and whatever someone claiming to be a professional, but not in your situation, says, I don't think it's good for the family to be living like that. Your DH needs to either get his reactions under control, or, if he has really lost the ability to control himself, he should remove himself from the home. Hopefully with treatment he will not need to stay away long.

I'm sure we all hope it won't come to this, but if he is under the impression that it's OK to stay in the home while he can't quite control his emotional reactions, there is the risk that the occasion might arise when he does something serious. Better to avoid that than have to deal with it afterwards.

I sympathise, OP, and hope that things improve very soon. And that you can find some good support in the meantime.

I empathise with this a lot. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it. My DP has some deep rooted and complex mental health issues and it's thrown up some challenging behavior at times.

My chat to him over the years has always been that mental health issues aren't his fault but they are his responsibility. I've had to set clear boundaries about what I consider to be acceptable behavior and what isn't and you can do the same. It's not unsupportive at all. If anything, it's the opposite because you're making sure that your relationship can survive the situation and that he's not ultimately going to be left in a worse state on his own. You obviously have a lot of love and empathy for him so I doubt you'll be setting any boundaries that won't be understanding of his limitations right now.

He might need help to get underneath his emotional state but he also needs to do some work on his behaviours and habits too. Some mental health supports are really good at helping you unlock all the reasons why your head's a mess but don't necessarily leave you with the tools to make change. Some go the other way. Whatever form of help your DH is getting, he needs to be an active participant which means more than just going to a session and talking to someone. He also needs to apply what he learns and make a commitment to recognise the wider impact of his behavior on your family. That might take a bit more time when he can't see the wood for the trees yet but you can hold him accountable while still being supportive if you approach it right.

I've had to spend time with my DP helping him identify his triggers and reactions because I've learned to spot them better than he has. I usually try to keep the conversation really gentle and understanding along the lines of "I'm noticing this... Have you noticed it? What's happening there?". I don't expect him to never slip up or do it again but I do expect him to engage with me.

Sometimes he's not as receptive and tries to excuse the behavior with the underlying reasons. I always take the view that the reasons don't change the impact. The hurt caused is the same. The reasons are what makes me forgive and move past it but he needs to understand that his behavior had an impact.

And sometimes I just lose the rag and tell him to fuck off. No one's perfect and you don't have to be either.

I hope things get better. He might be on a long journey with this or it might be something he can get over quickly (hope so) but, either way, you are absolutely allowed to have boundaries. He has to play his part in his own recovery and, being in a relationship and a family, he needs to accept that he's partially accountable to you guys for the sake of everyone's wellbeing.

He's acting that way because he's suffering with his mental health. He is not well mentally. Of course it's not OK but that is literally the whole point, HE is not OK. We don't suffer with our mental health and stay being a smilling ray of sunshine. You can stay or you can go and that is completely your choice and your right.

I am living with this every day, only with my dd. Walking on eggshells and afraid of saying the wrong thing. Last week she even made me leave and then reported me missing to the police. Spiteful and nasty behaviour and no it's not ok. Just watch them control themselves with other people while abusing you every day. It's very hard and depressing. 😰

ExDH did the same to me. I spent YEARS putting up with very similar behaviour because he was stressed, he genuinely thought it was ok for me to be an emotional punchbag and that he could act however he wanted in the home under the guise of stress and anxiety.

I left him. He went to therapy and apparently got better. I was totally out of love by that point unfortunately.

Exactly this!

Mental health problems don't appear the same in everybody. Of course it can make you act badly.

Yes, he absolutely needs to seek medication and support to deal with this. It to say mental health doesn't make you have mood swings is beyond stupid, I'm sorry.

I wouldn't put my children through living with domestic abuse. The picking and shouting will cause anxiety in the children and eventually low self esteem. You might think that that's ok, I don't.

Evidently.

I won't lie, I'm speechless. That you would just turn your back on someone when they need you most. Wow!

I tell mine he has to have an action plan rather then be horrid to us. He now goes for a walk or goes to his man cave instead of being horrid to us.

I consistently have no patience for any of his unkind behaviour and pick him up on it immediately in a fair, calm but clear way.

It might be worth suggesting medication to him in a calmer moment too

This might come across as patronising or belittling MH issues, it's not meant that way at all. Both DH and I have had our little periods of poor MH when life has thrown us some crap. So I get the not coping at times over little things and being a bit snappy. In those periods/weeks/months, when it's the hardest time to 'like' them, that's when you need to pull them in closer to you. Be affectionate, hug them as much as possible, go to bed at the same time and really connect. It's in those moments when you talk about how much the snapping is getting to you. We've been together for a long time and it's worked well for us.

Its unacceptable to project your internality onto others in the form of verbal or physical abuse. Period.

I've often observed throughout my life that males (myself included at times) really struggle with accepting their internal experience whenever it's anything other than positive or neutral.

Woman aren't "more emotional" than men or intrinsically more aware, from my perception this is nurture more than nature.

Women are typically (but not always) raised from childhood to be socially and emotionally pro-active and demonstrative.

Women emerge into adulthood with a clear understanding of the expectation of emotional labour placed on them by men. Any withdrawal from this unspoken contract casts her in the light of "bitch", right?

Men do not seem to have traditionally been raised with the same expectations of emotional labour and standard of interpersonal communication and empathic listening.

Because women tend to be raised with the encouragement to look within and be emotionally supportive of self and others (nurses much?) They also tend to be more accepting of being "not ok" and have a higher emotional pain tolerance, they can suffer without projecting that pain onto others in abusive tirades or passive aggressive behaviours.

Men just need to level up!

Small print:
As a disclaimer I'm well aware there are many women who lack self awareness and project badly onto others, but it's far more rife in the male populace.

If there were no symptoms of an illness then nobody would even know in the first place. Being irritable and moody is part and parcel of depression. It’s like saying ‘’having a stomach bug doesn’t give someone the right to vomit.’’

MH doesn’t technically give someone the right to be nasty, but people sometimes just can’t help it when they’re struggling to regulate themselves. It’s not nice to deal with and be on the receiving end of, though.

All you can do is make him aware that he’s making you feel awful and support him to find strategies to help him cope and deal with his anger in a more constructive way. Let him know you care. It should pass in time with the right support. Many people suffer on and off periodically.

Finding the coping strategy is key. I used to have wild PMT and get really snappy then rage tidy. Family knew to keep out the way - I wasn’t abusive just unpleasant to be around. DP gets grumpy and unpleasant and I kick him out the house to go and exercise to get some endorphins in. We both recognise it in ourselves and each other.

My OH suffers from depression and at times even with the medication he takes he’s massively irritable/short tempered. It’s absolutely a symptom as it always goes alongside various others like becoming withdrawn, struggling with focus/task execution & feeling hopeless/pointless.
He first went to talk to a GP about it 10 years or so ago after his first bout of being unwell while we were together, went for CBT & did a lot better for a long time. Covid & lockdown played havoc with the routines he’d got into to help manage and he became very unwell again. He initially saw a GP who was very dismissive, which made him resistant to seeking treatment. I eventually reached a point where I suggested we separated as while I understood he was struggling I wasn’t prepared to live with his behaviour. He then took me up on an earlier (much repeated) offer to go to the GP together. We saw someone who listened and was helpful. He’s been taking medication for almost two years now and is finally accessing some sessions with a counsellor via NHS this month. Things have got better though sometimes he still has times he struggles even with the medication. The big difference now is he’s at least able to see it’s not pointless to seek help and he is willing to go to doctors and look at adjusting dose, accesses self help materials, follow guidance about things like avoiding alcohol, getting regular exercise etc. It is easier to be supportive when you can see your partner struggling but working to get better though to be fair depression can make that a very hard thing as well. In the end the impact to you and the kids matter regardless of the reason for irritability that is driving someone to be snappy/unpleasant. I do agree with others that whatever you can do to avoid getting drawn into arguments in the moment is helpful. Saying things like “I’ve noticed you are struggling a lot with the kids doing x. Do you feel like you are struggling?” & talking through things let’s him get to the understanding he’s being unreasonable in his expectations of their behaviour because he’s feeling very irritable. In the moment he feels like it’s them being naughty, ignoring him and deliberately trying to annoy him, which really isn’t the case.