To think you can't behave however you want because of MH issues?

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DH is struggling atm with MH issues. He's usually such a lovely, lively person but at the moment our life stresses are causing him to be irritable, moody...basically hard to be around. He'll get mad at me about anything, raise his voice at me and the kids, make the home environment not a nice place to be. I know it's because he's feeling like he can't cope at the minute so I'm not saying anything and trying to take on as much as I can myself so that he doesn't have to. But does he have the right to be unkind to everyone because he's struggling? Do I just have to put up with it so that I'm being supportive? How can I say, without making things worse, that he can't go on behaving in this way? (He's currently getting help for his issues but it's early days).

Stop being provoked. It is shitty to be on the receiving end of this but it is not personal. When you are able to turn your emotions off and just see it as part of illness, then you can approach this without triggering further outbursts.

I have worked in MH for 20+ years and fundamentally disagree with this. Yes, there are people who cannot control themselves such as people with psychosis or bipolar. But other than that, people can control themselves from being unkind and cruel and it makes me so cross to hear people giving carte blanche to people because of MH issues. Plenty of the people I have worked with have struggled for years without being arseholes to the people they live with.

hoops with the we all know what the tragic consequences of that can be.
Are you indicating suicidal intent/action, so basically intimating 'you need to allow them to behave like that or.....and it'll be YOUR fault'?
That's very dangerous and cruel of you if so.

It's just hyperbolic given the op's descriptions.

Mental health is not a get out of jail free. If he was having a psychotic episode and paranoia, and became violent, nobody would suggest he should stay - even though he has no control of his actions.

Abusive and aggressive is an exaggeration. He's experiencing some irritability which is uncomfortable for op as she feels she has to modify her behaviour. That may be abusive but aggressive is reaching. Shouting out of frustration at a child is not great, but, hey.

And very much agree with @Atethehalloweenchocs above.

We have a chap at work who has epilepsy and it's apparently left him with some brain damage and he has been absolutely awful to some staff, in two cases making them cry. Now it's been mentioned that maybe it's down to his illnes but funnily enough he's only done it to young women and a teenage man. He has been in the same situation with me and another lady and not said a word probably because she is 50 and I'm 65 so he knows he won't get away with it.
I am just waiting to actually witness him shouting in their faces, which is what he' so apparently done and I will make an official complaint. No one should have to put up with that behaviour anywhere.

Well, er, yes, that's effectively what people HAVE been saying - that if a symptom of your illness is irritability, aggression and the like, you're not allowed to show it. Or, as you've said here, you 'shouldn't be around your family'. What we're saying is that those people likely can't help displaying those symptoms because they're ill.

If someone is actually violent, that's of course I different matter entirely. But there's quite a distance between that and 'being irritable'.

I really sympathise OP. My DH was struggling with his MH for a long period and it nearly ended our marriage. He did recover and he’s back to the man I married but it was very hard going for a long time with a lot of damage done along the way. There were many times where I thought we were done. I think you have to draw a line on how much you can support but be clear you won’t accept him behaving badly to you. I wish I’d done that sooner as it was the catalyst to him actually actively getting help and putting the work in himself.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX and @Jumpingthruhoops . Of course the illness caused symptoms and for ten years I literally bent over backwards took care of every single thing to allow the person I loved have the best opportunity to recover.

I learnt later that was not actually advised because unconsciously sending the message you don't think they are capable.

People are not talking about making allowances but I was and I witnessed emotional abuse to me and our children.

I was not going to stand by and watch my childrens mental health nor mine be severely impacted by another's illness. That would make me a pretty awful parent in my opinion.

I appreciate I have not had the serious MH of suicidal thoughts. So I can see your perspective.

But I watched someone battle it for a decade, I sectioned them several times, I watched 24 hours for several days when a crises was occurring. So I honestly think I've a good insight into it.

There is no ideal solution but one person's MH can't be allowed to destroy three others.

I wish you both good health.

@Jumpingthruhoops as I have said if you're unable to be around your family, in particular vulnerable children without being abusive or aggressive, you shouldn't be around them.
No ones said just 'being irritatable'.

Abuse and aggression around children isn't on, full stop. No health condition excuses it. No partner should have to stay in an abusive relationship regardless of whether the other party can help it or not.

Believing these things to be true and also holding the belief that anyone with mental health conditions should receive tolerance, kindness and support is entirely possible. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

Nice.

This is exactly the sort of inflammatory manipulative language that’s part of the problem.

The reality is that you cannot protect children from the moods swings and behaviour associated with MH difficulties whilst simultaneously supporting a partner in the way that they want at that time (I.e. for the children’s’ other parent to be a verbal punch bag who will pretend it isn’t happening).

We have got used to people with mental health being prioritised within the family, especially ahead of children and the child’s detriment. And we’ve also got used to people trying to raise this as a topics being shouted down.

Why does the DH matter more than the children? Why do they have to live with a scary adult shouting at them? Sorry but this is not ok.

If I was irritable, snappy and verbally aggressive due to a mental illness, I’d put strategies in place to ensure any young children didn’t witness it not be subjected to it. That’s not the same as not being around your family. This is about ensuring the mental health and emotional well-being of children is prioritised.

I think MH issues can cause a mood change I know in my extreme anxious episodes I've been nasty I wouldn't say irredeemable so but I know I have and on the questionnaire I have to do weekly to monitor how effective the treatment I'm receiving is one of the questions is how often I've been easily irritable or mood swings in the last 2 weeks

Actually, the OP said exactly that!

It's everyone else who's called him an 'abuser'. Can you see how things get blown out of all proportion?

If I was irritable, snappy and verbally aggressive due to a mental illness, I’d put strategies in place to ensure any young children didn’t witness it not be subjected to it

That’s not something a person with MH issues can necessarily do I’m afraid. I think he’s only just stated treatment so hopefully things will improve.

It must be difficult, and I would worry how it affects the kids, but he’s not choosing to behave this way.

Well, you can make of that statement what you will.

But, simply put, if you create an environment where a loved one with mental health issues feels they can't open up about how they're feeling and are basically suffering in silence, that person might think that's the only solution. That's not me being cruel, that's just stating facts - unfortunately they are facts that are very uncomfortable to hear.

What IS cruel, however, is not being there for someone who's unwell because of how the manifestation of their illness makes YOU feel. That's really cruel.

They don't matter more... but, in that moment, the adult is the one who's poorly. Obviously.

Honestly, I cannot believe some of these responses.

Anyone that supports this stance is literally saying out loud: 'My husband's suffering really badly with depression, but his mood swings are scaring the kids, so I had to chuck him out!'

Whatever happened to 'In sickness and in health', eh?

No, they are not "saying I don't want to be stressed or anxious at work, so I'll repress it then unleash it at home", and nor is there any element of "you need to put up with it". You seem to have absolutely no comprehension of the fact that ill people do not choose to be ill, they do not have the insight and ability to regulate their emotions that they would do when well, you are repeatedly ascribing a freedom of choice that ill people do not typically have, and also implying they possess a wilful malice that simply is not present.

Typically, working days begin in the morning and end later in the day, with most of the family time coming in that latter part of the day. This is not something that people can generally freely choose, so in most instances the person suffering from the illness really has no choice but to grit their teeth, go to work, and put up with the negative effect that has on their mood. That fortitude is already spread too thin, so it's perfectly understandable why, after a full day at work, someone who is already struggling will be even less capable later in the day than they were in the morning. Hell, even perfectly well people commonly go off to work in a reasonable mood and come home with steam coming out of their ears. Are they also being "selfish"?

Everyone has the right to be free of stress and anxiety in their own home, but people who are ill are not deliberately and consciously choosing to make the lives of their loved ones a misery for no good reason. How the other members of the family choose to deal with that is entirely for them, and they are perfectly within their rights to protect themselves and be fundamentally honest with ill member of the family.

The basic point that needs hammered home though, is no, ill people are not "choosing" to be nasty to their families, and how they act at work is neither here nor there. If they were capable of emotional regulation at work, emotional regulation at home, emotional regulation 24/7, then you'd have to say that they are not, in fact, ill in the first place, because that's what people who are well can do. The fact they are not capable of regulating their emotions sufficiently to get through an entire day is, in itself, an enormous indicator of the fact that they are ill.

In the scenario whereby the same person was working later in the day, I think you'd find that the interactions with the family early in the day would typically be less fraught when they ill person still has less cortisol surging around, and you'd see the ill-temper, irritability, and loss of ability to regulate later in the day while they were at work. That still wouldn't be any more of a "choice" than the other scenario.

This is hugely overly simplistic, takes no account of what the underlying causes of the illness might be, what the aggravating factors and triggers might be, and also that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for well people to act in different ways in different settings and with different people, yet supposes that unwell people must universally act the same way in all settings, else they are just making a conscious choice to be "abusive"

In other words, no, it's not useful for determining the truth about much at all.

It also totally ignores the fact that being unable to express emotions in the workplace is quite commonly one of the causes of spiralling illness, so, in essence the implication is that if they are not shouting and yelling at colleagues they are choosing not to and choosing to be a bastard at home, when in actual fact it's the inability to vent in the workplace that often causes and exacerbates the illness. So, again, ill people being "blamed" for the source of their underlying illness. Lovely.

Something else that needs to be said, which I haven't seen in the thread yet, is that generally speaking, so not this specific instance of OP's DH, it's astonishing how frequently people who are clearly unwell and in the grip of Anxiety or Depression actually have no comprehension of that fact themselves.

This is another common factor in the apparent phenomenon of unwell people seemingly being able to "choose" when they display symptoms of their illness and when they do not.

Take for example someone who is enormously stressed at work, to the point whereby it's a long-term situation that has taken a dramatic toll on their ability to regulate emotion, and they are no longer experiencing adrenalin/cortisol responses in a typical, healthy way. If they have no insight into the fact they are ill, they may well just be under the impression that it is normal, and indeed, common for people to be stressed in the workplace. After all, workplaces are often stressful environments, no?

So despite being chronically anxious, this person doesn't realise they are struggling, because they know no better and just assume this is part and parcel of working life.

They come home, still stressed, still anxious, still experiencing abnormal cortisol responses, and something run of the mill happens, like, for instance, a child being a bit tardy or naughty, or a spouse bringing up an unpleasant piece of necessary but annoying life admin. What happens? a typical response? No, they'll "lose their shit" for want of a better term, because they are ill and they no longer respond in a typical way to typical stimulus.

Do they know why? No, they have no idea they are ill.

Are they "choosing" to act like this? No, of course not, they are unwell.

So you put it to them that they are unwell and need help. "No, don't be silly, I'm perfectly ok, just a bit stressed by work". Well where do you go from there? Of course, they trot off to work the next day, go through the wringer again, and after a while it's not just a case of heightened anxiety, but chronic anxiety and likely a depressed state as well.

I can't stress this enough, but most people have absolutely no insight into their first bout of poor mental health.

I have not read all the responses.

I am someone who has struggles with mental health issues. I am also SUPER independent, stubborn and have VERY high standards for myself. I insist on being tough and independent because nothing scares me like dependence.

All that said, I think today people use "mental health" and "neurodivergence" as excuses to act like children. It's overused and an excuse to not have any discipline or self control. "It's a condition, I can't control it."

If someone's mental health has deteriorated to the point where they cannot control themselves, they need to be in an institution. I realize people will think that's mean. I'm American, Texan, and have had a really hard life, so I have ZERO patience for weakness. It is mean, they are correct. Life is mean. Nature is mean. Reality is mean.

Occasional outbursts happen. It's not a sign of bad mental health to have a bad day. But if it's a common occurrence for someone to have a fit when they don't get their way, they're not "neurodivergent." They're a brat.

When adults have mental health issues, they get help and get it under control. They don't subject the people in their lives, and certainly not CHILDREN, to their rages. When you care about your family, you protect them, you don't use them as whipping posts for your frustrations.

You have a responsibility to protect your children. Exposing them to someone who is mentally unstable to the point where they cannot control themselves is not protecting them.

Mental ill health is not "weakness".

Thankfully the civilised world has moved beyond institutionalising people who display undesirable behaviours, but the irony here is the US has an epidemic of totally untreated catastrophic mental ill-health, partly because of the lack of institutional care.

What your attitude leads to is exactly what you see on the streets of major US cities. Entire blocks full of down and outs, most of them with complex, untreated mental health issues, living rough, at the mercy of all sorts of vice, and with little to no hope of ever seeing their lives turned around.

Do your 'life is tough, deal with it' routine all you want. The very fact you can 'tough it out' shows that no matter what you say, your mental health issues clearly are not sufficient to make you dysfunctional, so perhaps you could lay the fuck off with the sanctimony over those less fortunate, and ditch the ridiculous tough guy act because all it does is show that you genuinely haven't got the first idea about what serious mental illness is.

He needs to find strategies to blow off steam in another room or whatever as a matter of priority. These are small children and it will affect them. I guess it depends how much they are witnessing. The odd outburst is fine. If it’s more regular, it’s not appropriate.

It’s a common theme now with all the MH talk that people weaponise their issues.