"Its like downtown Kabul round here"

[PyongyangKipperbang]

This has been bugging me all day.

Took my father (72) to a hospital appointment today as my mother was suffering with a migraine.

As we drove from our village through town he made this comment. It was school run time and we had just driven past two women who were wearing traditional muslim attire , wearing full matching outfits, one in black and one in the most stunning purple. Forgive me for not using the correct names but I would rather not try than get them wrong. There were a fair few families dressed similarly, but more that were in jeans and trainers!

Our small town is very very multicultural. My ex husband is Jamaican by heritage, British by birth as ex MIL and late FIL were both part of the Windrush generation. There is a large Asian community and now a lot of Eastern Europeans too.

Me - What?! They follow a different religion and dress that way, so what? And at least their dd's get to go to school.

Him - Oh well if youa re going to be like that about it

Me - Yes I am. In Kabul W X Y Z (my dd's, his GD's) wouldnt be allowed to go to school and would be forced to wear certain clothes, unlike here where we just let people be.

Then he said "well thats what I think and I can say it if I think it" and I said "Not in my car you cant. and if you think that they should all go back to where they came from, that includes Z (youngest DD, mixed race)"

Silence for a second and then "Thank you for the lift, I will get out at the lights and walk the rest of the way" I said to stop being childish. Then a dickhead cut me up and I called him as such and father said "Oh I bet all the bad drivers are only white british....." in a mumble. I said "Well as it happens, that one was" dropped him off at the hospital and all was done.

He has been cobby with me since. He needed a couple of favours later today as he can no longer drive and Ma couldnt because of her head and it was couched very much as "Your mother needs this and I cant go" rather than, as it would normally me "would you do me a favour?"

I wasnt wrong to pull him up on this was I? He isnt "elderly", just fucking "ist" when it suits him and inclusive when it doesnt. For example, DD1's partner is autistic which is thinks is made up and attention seeking...."apart from [him]". He has always been like this but I strongly suspect I am going to get the silent treatment for a while (unless he needs something). And yes, he does read THAT paper.......

We are very close and I love him very much and he me. But when Mr Daily Hate comes out......not so much..,,,

No, you were right to call him out on it. Let him cool off and he'll come around. maybe he will not be so vocal with his opinions in future.

the truth is for that generation, the changes around them have been difficult to adjust to and being fed propaganda doesn't help. the only real solution is for him to learn more about various issues, be it ethnicity or neurodivergence. but at his age that's very difficult.

I say that as a hijab wearing Muslim woman BTW. meet a lot of elderly ppl with a similar mindset... but it doesn't bother me because I feel they are a product of their time...

you still did the right thing to call it out obv...

It's always the most entitled privileged old farts getting bent about other races and religions.

I bet he votes Tory too.

Yanbu for disagreeing with his views but I think yabu for trying to educate him out of them at his age. It'll get you nowhere except frustration.

Especially yabu for effectively threatening not to give him a lift "not in my car".

If you're going to help him with lifts to hospital that shouldn't be conditional on him pretending to agree with your views. Just say I don't like it when you talk about things like that - rather than "not in my car". It's pointing out your power over him (or his obligation to you) and is very ugly imo.

I mean fair enough if you don't want to give him lifts any more. But it should be kept separate otherwise you're almost bullying him to pretend to agree with you, just because he needs the lift.

I should add - when I say "at his age" I don't mean I think he's doting. It's the opposite. Older people have seen more of the world and have formed their views based on observation and reflection. They're unlikely to change it just based on a brief nagging during a car ride

was he maybe concerned about traffic/mess/skips and rubble vs personal attire?
if someone said that in my presence my first thought would be environmental vs social. i've been in nyc during a garbage strike and several buildings being refaced with scaffolding and tarpaulins it looked pretty dreadful, no clue what the people were wearing.

Brace yourself, OP.

One day - sooner than you imagine - it'll be W X Y and Z calling YOU out for your ghastly, old fashioned views.

YANBU for 99.9% of post, but YABU for "not in my car you cant"

And I share your pain

HAHAHA I do have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

‘People of his generation,’ ‘It’s because of his age’ comments are all bullshit. Isn’t it interesting how a 72 year old man would have to get with the times in terms of technology and whatever other changes in life.

You go from a typewriter to a computer to maybe even a laptop. You go from having no phone at all, then to a brick phone and then dare I say it, possibly even a smart phone!

You go from using coins on the bus to only being allowed to pay via oyster or contactless card. I can go on and on and ON about all the changes the OP’s dad and many others have had to go through during their life. However, when it comes to race and ignorant comments, it’s all very much ‘well look at his generation, he doesn’t know any better.’ Well he bloody well should do.

Stop using age as a way to excuse peoples behaviour. There’s a film called ‘The Old Oak’ coming out this month and a lot of you should watch it and educate yourself.

I think you did the right thing OP. If you posted, ‘my dad said this and I didn’t say anything because I didn’t know what to do AIBU,’ so many people would be quick to say ‘why didn’t you call him out at the time?!’ Can’t win on here sometimes🙃

What “generation” would that be? They’re a product of what time? You could be talking about the 30s all the way through the 90s.

I had two parents who loved me very much. My one parent was racist who was raised by racists who were raised by racists who were raised by racists who were raised by racists, ad nauseam.
I’m fortunate that my other parent was fair and kind and respectful towards everyone.

I know dozens of people in my generation whose parents were just like mine - products of their environment. It didn’t take me much awareness to decide I didn’t want to continue down that road. In fact, it taught me a valuable lesson on how not to be.

My parents were part of the “greatest generation” and I’m hardly “elderly.” There are people in my generation who are far younger than I.

I’m a product of the 70s & 80s - and I treat people with the same kindness and respect which they treat me.
It’s always served me well.
To receive respect one must give respect.

Other races and religions tend to "get bent" about other races and religions as well. It is certainly not the preserve of white Anglo Saxon protestants. I say that as someone currently working abroad with other races and religions...

I think you're perfectly entitled to ask him not to speak like that in your car or your house, especially as you have mixed race children. My daughter is mixed race and my dad holds views like that. He knows not to speak about them in front of me because we will argue. It's really important that my daughter doesn't hear this nonsense from her own grandad and I think you're absolutely right to maintain that boundary. Bigotry isn't just an innocent difference of opinion and I'd bet you wouldn't dream of saying horrible things about elderly people around him / at all.

Just let it go
A relationship with your parents is more important and at the end of the day he IS entitled to his opinion own opinions however unpalatable you find them.

Sometimes my parents come out with things that make me cringe. I don’t tend to pick them up on it, because it’s pointless and causes arguments.

Of course you should raised it. And mentioned it clearly once. which you did.

That’s what I always do with people. If they then want to continue it’s up to them.

Good for you. My parents are older than that and I have no issue with challenging their views. They don’t have dementia and are not stupid. It’s patronising to suggest that old dears cannot change their views, bless them 🙄

It's also patronising to suggest that it is up to you to challenge people's views. People are entitled to their own opinions, whether those opinions are right or wrong.

OP's father merely made a comment, maybe it wasn't the right thing to say, but he is allowed to say what he thinks. It hardly means he is going to join a white supremacy organisation. It was a throwaway comment, and OP acting in the way she did is never going to change his attitude.

I think it is the sort of thing that many older people think but know not to say.

I know that my parents are regularly shocked at the fast pace of change in their area. This is something I can imagine them saying. My mum was shocked yesterday that white people were in the small minority in her doctor's surgery. She doesn't consider it racist to comment on it.

Your dad thought it but said it because he felt it was ok to do so in private with his daughter.

Now he knows not to say things like that in front of you.

But given you were so shocked, I assume it's unusual and out of character?

Must everyone agree with you? Is your father not allowed opinions because they don't align with yours? 🙄

even if those are his views, it's not unreasonable of OP to state that she'd prefer him not to express them when in her presence.

BU maybe for not letting him get out and walk the rest of the way.

Well done OP call it out each and every time, and ignore some of the PP's here who clearly agree with his view, going from their 'hEs aLLoWeD HiS oPiNiOn' nonsense

No prejudice from you then!

This is probably going to blow your mind, but has it occurred to you that maybe your father is right?
Perhaps our mad rush towards multiculturalism is a mistake that, in the long run, isn’t good for anyone.
Perhaps our modern tendency to label anyone who is a bit different (or who might be a bit of a pain in the arse) as neurodiverse is a mistake.

How do you know you’re right and not him?

"we had just driven past two women who were wearing traditional muslim attire , wearing full matching outfits, one in black and one in the most stunning purple"
Cringe

Is he usually racist? I assume not as this has surprised you.

Or was it an observational comment on the fact that there were a lot of Afghans speaking pashto.

I mean, I can remember walking into a bar in Spain and saying it felt like being in London because it was full of English people.

I think previous character and intent is important.