"Its like downtown Kabul round here"

[PyongyangKipperbang]

This has been bugging me all day.

Took my father (72) to a hospital appointment today as my mother was suffering with a migraine.

As we drove from our village through town he made this comment. It was school run time and we had just driven past two women who were wearing traditional muslim attire , wearing full matching outfits, one in black and one in the most stunning purple. Forgive me for not using the correct names but I would rather not try than get them wrong. There were a fair few families dressed similarly, but more that were in jeans and trainers!

Our small town is very very multicultural. My ex husband is Jamaican by heritage, British by birth as ex MIL and late FIL were both part of the Windrush generation. There is a large Asian community and now a lot of Eastern Europeans too.

Me - What?! They follow a different religion and dress that way, so what? And at least their dd's get to go to school.

Him - Oh well if youa re going to be like that about it

Me - Yes I am. In Kabul W X Y Z (my dd's, his GD's) wouldnt be allowed to go to school and would be forced to wear certain clothes, unlike here where we just let people be.

Then he said "well thats what I think and I can say it if I think it" and I said "Not in my car you cant. and if you think that they should all go back to where they came from, that includes Z (youngest DD, mixed race)"

Silence for a second and then "Thank you for the lift, I will get out at the lights and walk the rest of the way" I said to stop being childish. Then a dickhead cut me up and I called him as such and father said "Oh I bet all the bad drivers are only white british....." in a mumble. I said "Well as it happens, that one was" dropped him off at the hospital and all was done.

He has been cobby with me since. He needed a couple of favours later today as he can no longer drive and Ma couldnt because of her head and it was couched very much as "Your mother needs this and I cant go" rather than, as it would normally me "would you do me a favour?"

I wasnt wrong to pull him up on this was I? He isnt "elderly", just fucking "ist" when it suits him and inclusive when it doesnt. For example, DD1's partner is autistic which is thinks is made up and attention seeking...."apart from [him]". He has always been like this but I strongly suspect I am going to get the silent treatment for a while (unless he needs something). And yes, he does read THAT paper.......

We are very close and I love him very much and he me. But when Mr Daily Hate comes out......not so much..,,,

You’re a wonderful human being and an amazing mother. You advocate for your daughters and you’re in right. I wonder what he truly thinks of your children.

the truth is for that generation, the changes around them have been difficult to adjust to and being fed propaganda doesn't help

I’m “that generation” and not one single person my age that I know thinks like this.
However, I know younger people - particularly in their forties and fifties- who do.

I know it’s utterly gross. Two wrongs never make a right.

OP, this is MN, where racism is also justified and defended unless someone uses an in your face obvious racial slur. Otherwise, people will also argue against it.

YANBU to challenge it and definitely not being unreasonable to not allow it in your car.

That's not incidental you know, nor is the OP's behaviour to her own father. 'Challenging racism' is one of the few remaining acceptable outlets for hatred, including class bigotry, among a certain class of people in western societies, which is partly why it's such a popular pastime.

I do think the ‘generation’ stuff is bollocks though. Generations are rolling. When someone in their 70s was in their 40s it was the 1990s. That was 30 years post Windrush. Being old isn’t an excuse for being an areehole.

I also really dislike that this man’s views are directed towards women and the way women dress. A basic principle of our liberal society is women can wear what they want.

And cyclists. Don’t forget them.

Wow

He wasn’t born until 1951. He’s only 72.

Great username

You were a dick to your dad to pick a fight over a throwaway observational comment about your neighbourhood. And then to threaten to throw him out halfway to the hospital.

Now you want the warmth of mumsnet responses to your brave challenge to casual 'racism'. Well done. Bravo.

I'm glad the women looked stunning in their purple attire (random).

I actually agree with your dad. I personally feel that people are welcome to cone here but they should fit in with us, and our ways. I had to work in sparkbook in Birmingham. I had to walk around, running errands. I was the only white person, dressed in western clothing. Quite a few men gave me dirty looks, my collegue told me it was probably due to wearing a sleeveless top and skirt. I felt intimidated and foreign. I think your dad raised a good point but no-one will agree out of fear of being perceived as racist. I'm originally from another country.

I agree - as per my first post- and the way it is done only acts to entrench views more - you don't change opinions or enlighten views by shouting people down and casting them as evil.

How are a couple of women wearing a hijab not fitting in with us?

British women used to commonly wear scarves over their heads if you go back a few years.

I don't think what he said was that bad. If you had been driving and there were a lot of palm trees you could comment that it's like insert town with lots of palm trees , if you drive through an area with people with a certain dress it is ok to liken it to a Middle Eastern place where that style is prevalent. It's a comparison not a slur? He didn't say it was bad or negative, he just commented it was like a town where women dress a certain way.

#AnIndianWoman. So you dont like white older people.

It is also a product of where they have lived. I'm only 2 years younger than that man and I grew up in a very multicultural area. I lived in the same street as or a short walk from a Catholic church, a Synagogue, a Mosque and a Gurdwara.

I am white, Irish family, and my kids are mixed race. I grew up in a more multicultural area than my kids, had friends of more ethnicities than my kids. So age might be a factor but I think where you live is more significant.

The compliment to the woman in purple wasn't random at all. She wanted us all to know that not only is she not racist, she positively adores other cultures. Not that they're 'Other', though, oh no, god forbid one might accidentally imply such a thing. As British as her father, absolutely, 100%. As western as jeans! Just better dressed and more enriching. It's all deeply confused when you start scratching the surface.

Did you think she meant that people should fit in with how British women dressed 70 years ago? Or 150 years ago? Do you think she meant they should all wear corsets because British women used to commonly wear corsets too. No, you didn't think that.

I'd love to go back to the time when all men wore codpieces... that was a great look. And those long pointy shoes

You wanted to throw your father out of your car because you didn't like what he said? YABU.

What? Women should wear what they want to, pretty simple. No idea what you’ve been eating for breakfast.

Also where do you get 70 years ago from? I’m in my 40s and I remember women wearing scarves on their heads.

For goodness sake don't let common sense get in the way of the virtue signalling echo chamber that is mumsnet. That would never do🙄

@JustWhatWeDontNeed
My Nan was like that. Actually she was prejudiced against everyone. Weirdly, she hated the Irish even though her very mild mannered and softly spoken husband was one and, when her "Pop" was missing presumed dead during the war and the landlord turfed her family out of their home, it was an Irish woman who took them in. She didn't like Jews and was extremely bothered by "Darkies". Dad told me a neighbouring family painted an oil drum purple and popped a candle on top and prayed around it. Drove her wild for some reason. Dad used to shake his head at what she used to say.

She was around our house once and just leaving. I was watching Joan Armatrading on the tv. I could see Nan's hackles rise and she demanded to know what she was singing (i.e what style) in a very aggressive tone. I just thought oh bugger off home I want to listen to this!