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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Its like downtown Kabul round here"

344 replies

PyongyangKipperbang · 19/09/2023 02:34

This has been bugging me all day.

Took my father (72) to a hospital appointment today as my mother was suffering with a migraine.

As we drove from our village through town he made this comment. It was school run time and we had just driven past two women who were wearing traditional muslim attire , wearing full matching outfits, one in black and one in the most stunning purple. Forgive me for not using the correct names but I would rather not try than get them wrong. There were a fair few families dressed similarly, but more that were in jeans and trainers!

Our small town is very very multicultural. My ex husband is Jamaican by heritage, British by birth as ex MIL and late FIL were both part of the Windrush generation. There is a large Asian community and now a lot of Eastern Europeans too.

Me - What?! They follow a different religion and dress that way, so what? And at least their dd's get to go to school.

Him - Oh well if youa re going to be like that about it

Me - Yes I am. In Kabul W X Y Z (my dd's, his GD's) wouldnt be allowed to go to school and would be forced to wear certain clothes, unlike here where we just let people be.

Then he said "well thats what I think and I can say it if I think it" and I said "Not in my car you cant. and if you think that they should all go back to where they came from, that includes Z (youngest DD, mixed race)"

Silence for a second and then "Thank you for the lift, I will get out at the lights and walk the rest of the way" I said to stop being childish. Then a dickhead cut me up and I called him as such and father said "Oh I bet all the bad drivers are only white british....." in a mumble. I said "Well as it happens, that one was" dropped him off at the hospital and all was done.

He has been cobby with me since. He needed a couple of favours later today as he can no longer drive and Ma couldnt because of her head and it was couched very much as "Your mother needs this and I cant go" rather than, as it would normally me "would you do me a favour?"

I wasnt wrong to pull him up on this was I? He isnt "elderly", just fucking "ist" when it suits him and inclusive when it doesnt. For example, DD1's partner is autistic which is thinks is made up and attention seeking...."apart from [him]". He has always been like this but I strongly suspect I am going to get the silent treatment for a while (unless he needs something). And yes, he does read THAT paper.......

We are very close and I love him very much and he me. But when Mr Daily Hate comes out......not so much..,,,

OP posts:
Throwncrumbs · 19/09/2023 05:42

It’s not about age or ‘that generation’ though is it, there are plenty of people in their 20s and 30s that are like it too, so those excuses are just to blame oldies when it’s everywhere. Only thing that surprises me is the word ‘mother in law’ are not mentioned cos usually they get the blame for everything!

Mercurial123 · 19/09/2023 05:43

You're fighting a losing battle if you think you can change him. Call him out every time he's racist and then move on. Hopefully, he'll stop when talking to you as he won't get a reaction.

SlippySarah · 19/09/2023 05:44

Is it possible he was commenting (inappropriately, clumsily) because he is noting changes to how the town used to be? If he doesn't get out of the village much maybe he was surprised to see the cultural make up of the town if it has gradually become more ethnically diverse?

I don't think YABU to gently chastise him for expressing racist views but YABU for telling him not to have those views in your car and then not let him get out when he asked to.

Pipsquiggle · 19/09/2023 05:55

Yes people need to be pulled up on it, particularly as it was an appropriate time and place - it was just you 2 in a car.

My DF occasionally says the odd inappropriate sayings - we pull him up on it. It's usually something that's 'of it's time,' it was completely normal to say something like that in the 80s but not now.

Fortunately my dad is an educated and enlightened man and doesn't take offence as he knows we are just trying to help him

Seychal · 19/09/2023 06:09

I would also be pissed off for him not noticing "the most stunning purple".

Potiphar · 19/09/2023 06:09

Are you trying to help him?
It sounds to me like you’re trying to get him to believe the exact same things you do.

Artesia · 19/09/2023 06:10

I don't see why you jumped from his initial comment to "well if you think they should go back to where they came from....". That's not what he said at all, and it seems a real leap on your part. Has he previously expressed racist comments? Otherwise o think you read way more into it than he actually said.

JustWhatWeDontNeed · 19/09/2023 06:17

YANBU.

My mil is younger than your dad and we were visiting over summer. We were playing a game in the evening - the sort where you have to describe something. She pointed across the room and said:
"like that N in that painting".
I almost dropped dead.
"Oh sorry - Neg** then".
Dropped dead some more.
"What am I supposed to call them then?". Them?!

I'm still recovering. I called it out on all points but had to move it on rapidly as it happened in front of the teen DSS who we've already been battling with over sharing inappropriate jokes/memes in their friendship group.

It's really depressing because it's so alien to me and my own thought processes.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 19/09/2023 06:18

Jesus Christ the minimising on this thread, I forget MN's racist elements always rush onto a thread to minimise as quick as they can 🙄

minipeony · 19/09/2023 06:21

"Not in my car you cant. and if you think that they should all go back to where they came from, that includes Z (youngest DD, mixed race)" he didn't say that though did he? You've put words in his mouth.

I totally agree its up to you if you want him in your car or not but you can't tell someone you think they are racist and don't want to help them anymore and not expect them to be upset about it. It's fine for them to be upset about it just as it's fine for you to not want the racism.

Buffypaws · 19/09/2023 06:23

YANBU. He is just wrong. Here is what downtown Kabul is like from a woman who lives there.

“Right now, today

I can see the city and the bazaar from the window, but nothing is the same as before; no women are milling about, and the city has taken on an eerie silence. The city is covered in black. If women wear colored clothing, the Islamic government will beat them. With my own eyes, I saw a Taliban member beat a girl with a gun because her body was not covered from her head to her toes.”

I’m sure he isn’t interested but if by any chance he wants to find out how it is the full blog is here.

https://www.womensrights.network/post/a-country-where-it-s-a-crime-to-be-a-woman

A country where it’s a crime to be a woman

Today I am talking from a country where it’s a crime to be a woman. Hardly a day goes by without more bad news and restrictions on women. The suffering that the women of Afghanistan have endured, women have not suffered in any other land throughout his...

https://www.womensrights.network/post/a-country-where-it-s-a-crime-to-be-a-woman

Mistressanne · 19/09/2023 06:30

therealcookiemonster · 19/09/2023 02:56

the truth is for that generation, the changes around them have been difficult to adjust to and being fed propaganda doesn't help. the only real solution is for him to learn more about various issues, be it ethnicity or neurodivergence. but at his age that's very difficult.

I say that as a hijab wearing Muslim woman BTW. meet a lot of elderly ppl with a similar mindset... but it doesn't bother me because I feel they are a product of their time...

you still did the right thing to call it out obv...

’That generation’ is not much older than me.
My parents are 88 and 92 and they’re not racist. From the late 60’s onwards laws were made to stop discrimination and that 72 year old would have only been 18.
Racists come in all ages and you don’t get a free pass for being older.

stayathomer · 19/09/2023 06:31

While his comments werent great, you jumping in like thss as t was way over the top- a simple ‘you can’t say stuff like that’ or the like’- how did you get to if you think they should go back to where they came from? He didn’t say that, and not in my car does imply that he should get out. I agree with the yanbu but you were unreasonable!!

stayathomer · 19/09/2023 06:32

Excuse all the mistakes btw!🙈

Hemera2023 · 19/09/2023 06:35

You can ask him not to say things like that in front of you but you can’t force your opinion on someone else.

My DF had racist views which I found upsetting and when I was younger I would get into arguments with him about. But his views never changed…..

I didn’t want to get into arguments any more, so when he said things like that I just told him I didn’t agree and would change the subject.
He is no longer alive and I’m glad I didn’t spend the last years of his life arguing with him.

At the end of the day you can’t force someone to think the same way as you.

ohdamnitjanet · 19/09/2023 06:43

AprQ · 19/09/2023 03:50

HAHAHA I do have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

‘People of his generation,’ ‘It’s because of his age’ comments are all bullshit. Isn’t it interesting how a 72 year old man would have to get with the times in terms of technology and whatever other changes in life.

You go from a typewriter to a computer to maybe even a laptop. You go from having no phone at all, then to a brick phone and then dare I say it, possibly even a smart phone!

You go from using coins on the bus to only being allowed to pay via oyster or contactless card. I can go on and on and ON about all the changes the OP’s dad and many others have had to go through during their life. However, when it comes to race and ignorant comments, it’s all very much ‘well look at his generation, he doesn’t know any better.’ Well he bloody well should do.

Stop using age as a way to excuse peoples behaviour. There’s a film called ‘The Old Oak’ coming out this month and a lot of you should watch it and educate yourself.

I think you did the right thing OP. If you posted, ‘my dad said this and I didn’t say anything because I didn’t know what to do AIBU,’ so many people would be quick to say ‘why didn’t you call him out at the time?!’ Can’t win on here sometimes🙃

Yes, yes, and yes again, I shall be keeping your response! I’m so sick of people being excused their racism because they were around in the 70’s.

@PyongyangKipperbang you were absolutely right and well done, definitely not in your car, why should you be forced to listen to racist shit when you can’t walk away and you’re doing the favour?

Cloudysky81 · 19/09/2023 06:43

Im Asian and personally I’m generally not offended by things the over 70s say. Unless it’s direct abuse at individuals.
I do think they are a product of their times and the culture they grew up in.

Others will have different opinions which I respect and acknowledge different ethnicities have very different experiences of this.

ohdamnitjanet · 19/09/2023 06:46

Buffypaws · 19/09/2023 06:23

YANBU. He is just wrong. Here is what downtown Kabul is like from a woman who lives there.

“Right now, today

I can see the city and the bazaar from the window, but nothing is the same as before; no women are milling about, and the city has taken on an eerie silence. The city is covered in black. If women wear colored clothing, the Islamic government will beat them. With my own eyes, I saw a Taliban member beat a girl with a gun because her body was not covered from her head to her toes.”

I’m sure he isn’t interested but if by any chance he wants to find out how it is the full blog is here.

https://www.womensrights.network/post/a-country-where-it-s-a-crime-to-be-a-woman

It’s just heartbreaking.

eurochick · 19/09/2023 06:53

His comment was surely just a figurative way of saying "there are a lot of people in traditional Muslim attire round here now". And it sounds like he was probably correct. It was just an observation.

pleasehelpwi3 · 19/09/2023 06:55

therealcookiemonster · 19/09/2023 02:56

the truth is for that generation, the changes around them have been difficult to adjust to and being fed propaganda doesn't help. the only real solution is for him to learn more about various issues, be it ethnicity or neurodivergence. but at his age that's very difficult.

I say that as a hijab wearing Muslim woman BTW. meet a lot of elderly ppl with a similar mindset... but it doesn't bother me because I feel they are a product of their time...

you still did the right thing to call it out obv...

You are very forgiving and understanding!
My white parents are in their mid 70s.
Neither has a racist bone in their body, and would never come out with such nonsense as the OP's dad did.

HaddawayAndShite · 19/09/2023 06:56

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oakleaffy · 19/09/2023 06:56

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smilesup · 19/09/2023 06:59

I cally 80 year old parents out of this sort of low level racism all the time. They know better. Ironically my Dad is from Eastern Europe and is more 'forin' than some of the people they make ignorant comments about. They have got worse as they got older but don't see their arse when pulled up tbf. They sort of say what they think and if we are all honest we sometimes think rubbish thoughts but are better at filtering them out.

Potiphar · 19/09/2023 07:00

Good luck living in your echo chamber where everyone else is always wrong and you’re always right. I’m sure this will in no way come back to bite you on the arse at a later date.

Arrivederla · 19/09/2023 07:01

AprQ · 19/09/2023 03:50

HAHAHA I do have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

‘People of his generation,’ ‘It’s because of his age’ comments are all bullshit. Isn’t it interesting how a 72 year old man would have to get with the times in terms of technology and whatever other changes in life.

You go from a typewriter to a computer to maybe even a laptop. You go from having no phone at all, then to a brick phone and then dare I say it, possibly even a smart phone!

You go from using coins on the bus to only being allowed to pay via oyster or contactless card. I can go on and on and ON about all the changes the OP’s dad and many others have had to go through during their life. However, when it comes to race and ignorant comments, it’s all very much ‘well look at his generation, he doesn’t know any better.’ Well he bloody well should do.

Stop using age as a way to excuse peoples behaviour. There’s a film called ‘The Old Oak’ coming out this month and a lot of you should watch it and educate yourself.

I think you did the right thing OP. If you posted, ‘my dad said this and I didn’t say anything because I didn’t know what to do AIBU,’ so many people would be quick to say ‘why didn’t you call him out at the time?!’ Can’t win on here sometimes🙃

Couldn't agree more. I am not a million miles away from his age (64) and there is absolutely no excuse for his comments.

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