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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Its like downtown Kabul round here"

344 replies

PyongyangKipperbang · 19/09/2023 02:34

This has been bugging me all day.

Took my father (72) to a hospital appointment today as my mother was suffering with a migraine.

As we drove from our village through town he made this comment. It was school run time and we had just driven past two women who were wearing traditional muslim attire , wearing full matching outfits, one in black and one in the most stunning purple. Forgive me for not using the correct names but I would rather not try than get them wrong. There were a fair few families dressed similarly, but more that were in jeans and trainers!

Our small town is very very multicultural. My ex husband is Jamaican by heritage, British by birth as ex MIL and late FIL were both part of the Windrush generation. There is a large Asian community and now a lot of Eastern Europeans too.

Me - What?! They follow a different religion and dress that way, so what? And at least their dd's get to go to school.

Him - Oh well if youa re going to be like that about it

Me - Yes I am. In Kabul W X Y Z (my dd's, his GD's) wouldnt be allowed to go to school and would be forced to wear certain clothes, unlike here where we just let people be.

Then he said "well thats what I think and I can say it if I think it" and I said "Not in my car you cant. and if you think that they should all go back to where they came from, that includes Z (youngest DD, mixed race)"

Silence for a second and then "Thank you for the lift, I will get out at the lights and walk the rest of the way" I said to stop being childish. Then a dickhead cut me up and I called him as such and father said "Oh I bet all the bad drivers are only white british....." in a mumble. I said "Well as it happens, that one was" dropped him off at the hospital and all was done.

He has been cobby with me since. He needed a couple of favours later today as he can no longer drive and Ma couldnt because of her head and it was couched very much as "Your mother needs this and I cant go" rather than, as it would normally me "would you do me a favour?"

I wasnt wrong to pull him up on this was I? He isnt "elderly", just fucking "ist" when it suits him and inclusive when it doesnt. For example, DD1's partner is autistic which is thinks is made up and attention seeking...."apart from [him]". He has always been like this but I strongly suspect I am going to get the silent treatment for a while (unless he needs something). And yes, he does read THAT paper.......

We are very close and I love him very much and he me. But when Mr Daily Hate comes out......not so much..,,,

OP posts:
Potiphar · 19/09/2023 07:01

Oh and the phrase is “crock of shit.”

You can’t even get that right.

RachelGreensHair · 19/09/2023 07:02

Wow - OP never ask about race on mumsnet cos then all the racists come out.

SnapdragonToadflax · 19/09/2023 07:09

You're right to call him on it. It won't do any good and it's incredibly frustrating and often upsetting, but you can at least make your feelings known. My FIL was like this. I'm glad he died before our child was born so we don't have to worry about what he'll hear.

And it's not his age. 72 is hardly ancient. My parents are a few years older but manage not to be racist cunts.

Teateaandmoretea · 19/09/2023 07:10

RachelGreensHair · 19/09/2023 07:02

Wow - OP never ask about race on mumsnet cos then all the racists come out.

Along with the virtue signallers who won’t allow discussion about it without screaming ‘racist’ at everyone who doesn’t 100% agree with them.

Everyone has biases, probably even you.

pangolinparty · 19/09/2023 07:11

It's a crock of shite to blame age or generation. It's not an excuse for bigoted racist views. Our local refugee solidarity and stop racism groups are predominately run by those in their 60's and 70's.

lollipoprainbow · 19/09/2023 07:11

@Teateaandmoretea well said

Comtesse · 19/09/2023 07:14

Yanbu. No idea where all the wingnuts came from over night….

graceinspace999 · 19/09/2023 07:16

Buffypaws · 19/09/2023 06:23

YANBU. He is just wrong. Here is what downtown Kabul is like from a woman who lives there.

“Right now, today

I can see the city and the bazaar from the window, but nothing is the same as before; no women are milling about, and the city has taken on an eerie silence. The city is covered in black. If women wear colored clothing, the Islamic government will beat them. With my own eyes, I saw a Taliban member beat a girl with a gun because her body was not covered from her head to her toes.”

I’m sure he isn’t interested but if by any chance he wants to find out how it is the full blog is here.

https://www.womensrights.network/post/a-country-where-it-s-a-crime-to-be-a-woman

A harrowing read and a stark warning about how quickly we can stripped of rights.

It only took a few months…

maddiemookins16mum · 19/09/2023 07:20

That’s his view. You’re allowed to dislike it, he’s allowed to have it.

Craftycorvid · 19/09/2023 07:22

It’s so hard when comments press your buttons. And clearly your dad has ‘form’ for pressing buttons in this and other areas, such as neurodivergence. So, you react, then he reacts and you both go off angry and even more entrenched in your separate viewpoints. Could you try - ‘when you make comments like that about women wearing hijab, I feel uneasy. What is it that bothers you about seeing them wearing a scarf?’ It’s obviously not going to work miracles, but aiming to explore what someone is feeling is one way to engage without agreeing with their views. You can still say ‘I disagree, but I want to understand what makes you feel as you do.’

Titerama · 19/09/2023 07:23

Another day, another thread packed with racism apologists and minimisers on the main board of mn.

Titerama · 19/09/2023 07:26

OP you were absolutely right to challenge his casual prejudice.

He may not change what he thinks inside, but when he knows he can’t be like that around you, at least you won’t be subject to it, and complicit.

drinkuptheezider · 19/09/2023 07:26

SnapdragonToadflax · 19/09/2023 07:09

You're right to call him on it. It won't do any good and it's incredibly frustrating and often upsetting, but you can at least make your feelings known. My FIL was like this. I'm glad he died before our child was born so we don't have to worry about what he'll hear.

And it's not his age. 72 is hardly ancient. My parents are a few years older but manage not to be racist cunts.

Anyone born in the early 50s would have been the 60s teenage generation, hippies, social protests etc. Its not the 'generation'. There are racist people in every generation, I work with guys in their 30s, parents of young kids who come out with some really vile views.

it may not be particularly pleasant, but denying the views entrenches those views.
I gave up on DM years ago, I won't convince her away from her views.

Bananawotsit · 19/09/2023 07:27

you did the right thing!

lollipoprainbow · 19/09/2023 07:27

Titerama · 19/09/2023 07:23

Another day, another thread packed with racism apologists and minimisers on the main board of mn.

Another day another thread packed with racist being screeched at every opportunity.

oakleaffy · 19/09/2023 07:27

graceinspace999 · 19/09/2023 07:16

A harrowing read and a stark warning about how quickly we can stripped of rights.

It only took a few months…

Show quote history

A very good but depressing film called ''Osama'' was filmed in Afghanistan before the Taliban took over again.

It's about a girl who disguises herself as a boy after all the men in her family were killed in the war.

English subtitles. Available on You Tube for free.

Bananawotsit · 19/09/2023 07:29

AprQ · 19/09/2023 03:50

HAHAHA I do have to laugh at some of the comments on here.

‘People of his generation,’ ‘It’s because of his age’ comments are all bullshit. Isn’t it interesting how a 72 year old man would have to get with the times in terms of technology and whatever other changes in life.

You go from a typewriter to a computer to maybe even a laptop. You go from having no phone at all, then to a brick phone and then dare I say it, possibly even a smart phone!

You go from using coins on the bus to only being allowed to pay via oyster or contactless card. I can go on and on and ON about all the changes the OP’s dad and many others have had to go through during their life. However, when it comes to race and ignorant comments, it’s all very much ‘well look at his generation, he doesn’t know any better.’ Well he bloody well should do.

Stop using age as a way to excuse peoples behaviour. There’s a film called ‘The Old Oak’ coming out this month and a lot of you should watch it and educate yourself.

I think you did the right thing OP. If you posted, ‘my dad said this and I didn’t say anything because I didn’t know what to do AIBU,’ so many people would be quick to say ‘why didn’t you call him out at the time?!’ Can’t win on here sometimes🙃

This

Azaeleasinbloom · 19/09/2023 07:30

therealcookiemonster · 19/09/2023 02:56

the truth is for that generation, the changes around them have been difficult to adjust to and being fed propaganda doesn't help. the only real solution is for him to learn more about various issues, be it ethnicity or neurodivergence. but at his age that's very difficult.

I say that as a hijab wearing Muslim woman BTW. meet a lot of elderly ppl with a similar mindset... but it doesn't bother me because I feel they are a product of their time...

you still did the right thing to call it out obv...

Quit with the ageism. OP said he’s not elderly. I am in my 60s, have lived and travelled all around the globe, and have no problems adjusting thanks.

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 19/09/2023 07:34

JustAnotherPoster00 · 19/09/2023 06:18

Jesus Christ the minimising on this thread, I forget MN's racist elements always rush onto a thread to minimise as quick as they can 🙄

Yes it’s actually shocking…
YANBU OP

DappledThings · 19/09/2023 07:36

His age is no excuse. My parents are 71 and 75 and wouldn't dream of sating such a thing. At some point in the 90s I remember being at home with my grandad (mum's dad) and a news report came on showing a plane held on the tarmac in the UK possibly being turned around over some issue with the immigrations status of those on board. My grandad said something along the lines of "good, there's too many of them here now anyway" and my dad rounded on him and told him to keep his bigoted views out of our house.

That's the generation of people in their 70s now that I know. The ones challenging racism.

Superwooman · 19/09/2023 07:36

Is it religionism rather than racism.

We already have religionism in the UK - Catholic /Protestant in Scotland. Not that that makes it acceptable.
Many Muslims have v strict rules and do not accept homosexuality etc - so perhaps it's religionsim.

RachelGreensHair · 19/09/2023 07:36

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maddening · 19/09/2023 07:37

Tbh you trap more flies with honey - there are better ways to call out sentiments or prejudice that are effective in challenging and possibly enlightening than being abrasive- you just end up putting backs up and pushing away imo and people get more entrenched in these ideas. So you could have engaged your dad more effectively imo.

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 07:38

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maddening · 19/09/2023 07:39

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Tbh your whole post is awful - dumb bitches, creaming themselves 🤮 sexist mysoginistic language is not a way to challenge racism ffs