Very naughty teen being rewarded!!

[heavenhelpmenow]

My SIL took on her niece as a baby due to her mum being very ill. She's lived with her ever since. The girl is now 14 and behaving really badly. She vapes, stays out at night, has to be found and brought home by police, steals and beats up my SIL. The girl breaks stuff around the home when she doesn't get her way. She's been expelled from 2 schools already. When anyone talks to her she is full of bad attitude, swears and calls people horrid names for no reason. She had an assessment that found nothing wrong with her other than acting out. She apparently has a 31 year old boyfriend! Social services have sent her to a private school and are paying for her aunt and her to go on a nice holiday. The girl is still playing up and being awful. SIL had a black eye and cut lip just yesterday.Does anybody else think this is rewarding bad behaviour? I just can't believe this is what they do now!!

If nobody explains to her about her entitled behaviour then how does she learn?

What entitled behaviour?

You seem to think she is behaving like a 'brat' because you think she has had a good upbringing (despite what many on here are explaining about attachment disorder and abuse).

It's bad behaviour, but nothing about it strikes me of coming from a place of entitlement. The child needs help and to learn about appropriate ways of communicating distress certainly but not to be punished for being 'bratty'.

Certainly have no anger towards SIL just recognising that over indulgence can lead to entitled behaviour during the teens. I do feel some resentment towards the girl yes, imagine seeing your SIL's face bruised and marked and the sadness. So many people judging on here 😒

Her childhood was a bit over indulged but nothing more.
Except not being raised by her parent(s), which is a major adverse childhood experience.

Your absolute insistence that she's just an overindulged brat who shouldn't have nice things is really quite concerning.

Adverse Childhood Experiences have an impact on children as they grow up. It has an impact on a child's social, emotional and mental health over time.
Trauma doesn't always show up straight away.

I can't understand why an adult who knows a vulnerable child would be so wedded to the idea that they're a spoilt brat rather than the multitude of other evidence-informed explanations.

That's kinda funny that you expect a 14 years old to understand when being explained. But you, yourself, can't understand attachment disorder when being explained....

There, read this. https://www.healthline.com/health/reactive-attachment-disorder-in-teenager#signs-and-symptoms

Tell your SIL to find someone specialising in reactive attachment disorder and explore that avenue. And get down of your judgemental high horse and stop raging about a private schools and free holidays that you probably misunderstood anyway.

Entitled behaviour - battering her aunt when she won't do what she wants?
Putting her foot through the television?
Kicking and hitting the dog?
Expecting money any time she asks? Stealing if its not given?
Saying she can do whatever she likes and no-one can stop her? Then going off and doing it....
She has been explained to that this behaviour is wrong but she doesn't care...

Never once said she shouldn't have nice things.....

You're telling me to stop doing things then go on to tell me what to do - hypocrite!

No. Stay away from the girl.

Send the link to your SIL then let her deal with it.

But let's be honest, there is no SIL, is there? You are just here because life is boring and you want to pick a fight on Mumsnet ;)

Never once said she shouldn't have nice things.....
But you've made it very clear that you consider all the things put in place by relevant services are rewarding bad behaviour

And have generally refused to consider that dozens of posters talking about the impact of trauma might have a point

And consider that the problem with her is she's entitled

And that she's been overindulged as a child (despite ACEs and a concerning relationship with an adult male).

Spend a little bit of time looking at childhood trauma, and adverse childhood experiences. Then spend some time reading the countless threads and groups online where parents/carers of young people with SEN and complex SEMH needs are struggling to get even the TINIEST bit of funding to support their children.
Then consider that there is no way this girl would be getting the education she is and the package of support she is unless countless professionals have deemed it appropriate.

No service is going to put a bespoke set of provision in place for a child who has been a bit spoilt as a kid and knows she shouldn't really kick a TV set.

Support anything that makes her feel valued, loved and safe (ie new school, change of scene).

While she is in a cycle of abuse it is very hard to break but these changes may actually help to bring her back to who she was before. She will not want to face the abuse, everything in her will want to believe the lies that she has been fed and she will become obstructive, bad tempered and strike out when an alternative narrative comes in. It is self protective.

I think you need to get her specialised counselling and I would be reaching out to charities that deal with child abuse such as the NSPCC for advice on how to get her all the support she needs, how to extricate her from her abuser and help her recover from the experience.

I’m not sure why they won’t arrest him. Nevertheless, prosecution or criminal injury compensation are for a later time.

Right not she is not safe and you need specialist help and advice to bring her to safety. Please the intervention involved is much more than calling the police and expecting them to arrest the badly.

She could be impacted by this her entire life. It is very very deeply traumatising and that is why her behaviour is so severe.

Get help from every single agency you can get the number of and the entire family needs to step up to keep her well and alive.

She's in pain and trying to deal with it. Maybe not in the healthiest way as she is a child trying to navigate her life.

Your SIL is probably in pain watching her knowing she is powerless.

I hope you stay away from that child as she will be picking it all up from you.

Yes it's horrible watching someone you love get hurt. But you have shown not one ounce of compassion, empathy or even consideration out of your own narrow viewpoint.

I hope they fund some specific counselling for her and your SIL.

Maybe you can stay away!

They do. My cousins foster child's been in a very good one since being expelled. Paid for by SS.

The first 3 on your list were the kind of behaviour my DS with trauma and special needs did when his mental health was at its lowest.

Thank god I didn't put it down to entitlement and listened to professionals who said it was trauma informed behaviour that would improve when the environment and trauma was resolved.

Guess what? It did.

Punishing this child won't help. She needs to know it is wrong, and I'll bet that she does actually know it's wrong. But removing good education on the basis she's an 'entitled brat' won't help.

I'd actually keep away from her. You won't help her or your SIL with your attitude.

She is 14.
She is a child.
Your view is warped.

@Incywincywoo - is it fair to call the aunt incompetent? She is trying to stop the girl going out to meet the 32 year old man who is abusing her, and she is beaten up, and the girl goes out anyway. So the aunt calls the police who find the girl and bring her back, but do nothing about the man who is having sex with a child. The aunt is beaten up for refusing to give the girl money for vapes. I’m not sure what the aunt could do, in that moment, to stop her niece either going out to meet this man or stealing money to buy vapes. Presumably, if she locked up all the money, her niece would assault her or trash the house. I wouldn’t know how to tackle that, so calling her incompetent seems harsh.

However, @RueRue is right about attachment starting in the womb, @heavenhelpmenow - and even in two weeks she will have bonded even further with her mum, so attachment disorder may well be a factor here, even though it sounds as if her aunt and the wider family have done their best to give this girl a safe, secure, loving upbringing.

I think she needs therapy, and they might benefit from family therapy too. But social services and the police need to do their part - especially with regards to the sexually abusive man.

She does need to understand these things if she's going to get over whatever it is that's affecting her.

@heavenhelpmenow

Everyone on here has told you what is affecting her.

She is being sexually abused and has an attachment disorder.

She is not mentally capable of responding like a typical healthy 14yo because she is not one.

And as for your SIL’s poor bruised face that we are supposed to have so much empathy for…

Would you require a video recording of the child abuse that your sister in law has allowed to take place for it to sink in what this kid is going through?

Again, @Incywincywoo - is it fair to say the aunt has allowed the abuse? She has been beaten up by the girl for trying to stop her, she has got the police to find her and bring her back, social services know about the man - what more could she do in the moment, when her niece is battering her and running away?

In the longer term, she needs to chase SS and the police and make them act on the abusive man, as well as making them provide proper counselling for the girl. But in the moment, she stands in her niece’s way and gets injured doing it - should she let the girl kill her?

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

I am speaking from a personal viewpoint but abusers seek vulnerable children.

Not the ones whose parents have excellent relationships with them and tell them everything. Or the ones whose parents come and pick them up after school, monitor social media, know all their friends and take active involvement in their day to day lives.

They go for the ones with no parents or single parents, dysfunctional home relationships, bullying, bereavement or money trouble in family so parents/caregivers are distracted etc

In short they prey on the ones who are already mentally distressed because they are easily manipulated and care givers are poor or absent therefore don’t step in to stop the abuse.

The number one thing the Aunt had to do in safeguarding the child was to protect her from abuse and maltreatment. And she obviously hasn’t - the behaviour is secondary to the abuse, it happened after.

OP is very loyal to the Aunt so will not tell the full backstory but somewhere along the line the child has been left alone long enough on repeated occasions that an adult was able to interact with her, establish a relationship and groom her towards a sexual relationship. That takes time and opportunity.

Also @SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

There are a multitude of sexual abuse, child abuse and mental health charities and organisations.

Waiting around for social services to dream up all the solutions won’t service the girl’s needs.

Specialist intervention and support is required for the girl and Aunt to try and resolve the issue it’s gone so far now very hard to retrieve.

All in all the change of school and break from routine do sound good to try and remove her from harmful influences. But it is really only a beginning to resolving the trauma issues she has, she will probably struggle well into adulthood.

so put bluntly

• she has grown up without her parents able to be the primary caregivers
• she hasn’t had clear boundaries from young.
• she has had to deal with her mum being unwell (whether physical or mental)
• there would have no doubt been a feeling of being different from that (my dad died and I grew up knowing my family was different)
• she probably gets asked why she doesn’t live with her mum.
• she may well have been bullied/belittled for her mums sickness and/or having a care giver who is old enough to be her Nan
• she probably hasn’t felt loved. Whilst maybe she was given a good childhood materialistically maybe she didn’t get the counselling and support she needed to deal with the actual situation
• she has now been groomed by someone over twice her age

honestly it’s very easy to look and say but she had a good childhood! Maybe her care needs were met and she had nice things but were her emotional needs met? Did she feel safe and loved and secure? Was she bullied? (Often those who are bullied will then bully others)

she sounds like she has suffered some trauma and needs therapy. It may be a fee paying school and a part of that may be because they do therapeutic work alongside the national curriculum and are more trained to deal with children with complex needs

it will also depend on what she’s been tested for - has she been tested for ADHD (which is harder to diagnose in girls) and have they considered oppositional defiant disorder?

OP, leave the post and ask for its deletion.

'Her mum was very ill after she was born and still has some health issues so girl stayed with her aunt. Her dad was a sailor who went away before mum found out she was pregnant. She was embraced by her aunt and had a lovely life, she still sees her mum regularly. There have been NO problems in her childhood at all. She's just a brat!'

You are one of the most evil people I have ever come across.

Just to add, if she has a current good relationship with her mum, has it not occurred to you that she wonders why she doesn’t currently live with her? Every time she sees her mum she’ll leave which is another maternal rejection. Yes, she’s lived with her aunt, but she knows she’s her aunt and that her mum is still around but doesn’t want her. Being rejected by your mum has a massive and permanent effect. Doesn’t matter how nice a childhood you have, it must be massively traumatic for a child to grow up knowing her mum couldn’t/wouldn’t look after her when she was a baby and then never wanted to have her. She’s then expected to still speak to her and have a “nice” relationship with her. That’s not an idyllic upbringing. It’s a hugely complicated and damaging upbringing that will have given her constant feelings of rejection and a complete lack of self-confidence. Along comes Mr 31 yr Abuser who shows her affection and makes her feel wanted and loved and it’s a recipe for disaster.

Has she ever had counselling? Or does she not need it because she’s an ungrateful madam who doesn’t appreciate her idyllic childhood.

Her recent behaviour hasn’t happened in isolation from the previous 14 years. It’s all related. If the rest of your family have a similar attitude of “but you’ve had a lovely childhood” then it’s not much wonder she’s having problems (take a look at the Stately Homes threads!).

I know someone who’s mum had her when she was a teenager. She couldn’t cope with a baby so the girl was raised by her gran. Her mum and dad stayed together and went on to have another child but never took the girl back in. Needless to say it’s totally f*cked her up and she has a history of dysfunctional relationships.

Honestly OP, your utter lack of empathy towards a traumatised 14-year-old is horrific. You don't want to learn about attachment disorder and the effects of trauma and grooming, you just want us to agree that your niece is 'a brat'.

Sorry, but you're wrong. About pretty much everything.

I hope your SIL gets the help she needs to be safe, I can understand why you’re so worried and why the holiday in particular doesn’t seem to make sense. I’d hazard a guess that social services are desperate to keep your SIL on board and will throw whatever they can at what is a very serious problem. If your SIL was her biological
mother and not, what I imagine to be from your posts, a dedicated and incredibly patient foster mother, I wonder what people would be saying then. It’s very clear your niece is unhappy and has serious issues. Even with a secure and loving long-term home since babyhood, she could be dealing with some incredibly difficult emotions and feelings of abandonment around her family situation now she’s a teenager. She could also just not be very nice but I think you said this is a recent turn. That doesn’t make it okay to be violent and disrespectful to those who love and care for her though and allowing her to act that way won’t help her to adjust to a happy and healthy adulthood.

It’s a really sad situation and I think having you on her side and showing concern will be really helpful to your SIL. From the judgment you got here, I worry how parents in similar situations find the courage to speak out when they are being violently assaulted by their child.

I hope your SIL and your niece get the help they need and can return to enjoying a loving family relationship in the near future.