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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

FIL smacked my bum

211 replies

wisewoman2023 · 14/09/2023 14:11

I have a frought relationship with my in laws. They have no boundaries and are what I think toxic parents to their adult children.

Anyway, last Christmas my FIL smacked my bum three times in quick succession. It hurt and I could feel it for days after. I have kept them at arms length since. I do not feel comfortable him staying in my house, and when he asked to stay over we have declined as I do not feel I received an apology.

He apologised at the time but it was defensive. My MIL has now written to me to say that it was just a "pat on the bum" and meant as a "well done". She says that I need to accept the apology with "good grace".

I don't want a relationship with them. This has come after 14 years of being treated not very well by them. How do I explain that I don't want contact with them to my DH? I want us to continue a happy marriage, and I'm happy for him to continue a relationship with them, but I don't want to be included in that. Is this possible?

OP posts:
Bidoof · 14/09/2023 19:34

My FIL did this to me a few times. It caused rows between me and DH. FIL would always do it at a crowded family occasion, and knew neither me or DH would create a scene and ruin an event.

But he did it once so hard, and in front of all his male work friends who were smirking, I felt so belittled and embarrassed. I cried when I got home. DH was so angry too, but neither of us said anything and we had a row - DH thought it was my responsibility to shout at FIL, but I thought it was DHs responsibility to stand up to him on my behalf. It was his dad and why was he sitting there watching it? But DH said "well why are you just allowing it to happen without saying anything"

I explained that when you're a small woman, surrounded by men and one of them smacks you about the arse while the rest smirk, the feeling of shock, helplessness, embarrassment leave you feeling like you just want to run off and hide.

For further context on this, while I generally get along with all of DHs family, they all think the sun shines out of DHs arse and he can do no wrong. If there's a difference of opinion, or a disagreement between DH and I, they'd always side with DH. And DH knows it and finds it hilarious. He often laughs how he could murder me in cold blood for no reason, but his family would still find a way to blame me for it and help him cover it up.

They also don't like what a 'militant feminazi' I am, and think I'm too oversensitive to sexism, seenit where it doesnt exist and MIL thinks FILs bum smacks perpetrated on other women are 'just the way he is, it's harmless'.

She also loves to cook and host parties, bbqs and any sort of get togethers. So if I was to cause tension at one of her parties because of something she believes is harmless, I'd be all the bitches under the sun. It needed someone who was a family insider to say something, not the wicked DIL looking for a reason to cry about feminist issues.

DH eventually agreed. It needed another man within the family to tell this other man that what he was doing was bloody well bang out of order, for a whole multitude of reasons, and it needed to stop.

So finally, DH had the talk with his DF and its stopped. Never happened again.

MIL told several family members though, complaining about my feminist oversensitivities and crying to the extent another female family member called my DH to say how we'd upset MIL and we were out of line. When DH said "OK, so if your DH went around smacking the arses of other women at every crowded occasion for all to see, are you saying you wouldn't give him both barrels...it wouldnt bother you at all?!"

When every female family member who sided with MIL was confronted with the same question, (all of who had put up with years of being smacked on their arse by him too) they all had to retreat and eat their words. Because my FIL is the only one who did this. Why were all of us just allowing one man to go around smacking womens arses?
Simply because we were all excusing it with "well, that's just the way he is, isnt it"

Well, no. Times change. And its not the way he should be.

Eventually, we had 2 other female relatives call to thank us for being the first ones to finally put a stop to this. Apparently, it had been causing rows in their relationships too but they didn't want to be the ones to say anything and cause friction.

But someone has to, otherwise it becomes a never ending cycle.

Balloonhearts · 14/09/2023 19:43

Smack him in the chops and tell mil not to be so overdramatic, it was just an affectionate pat on the cheek.

GilbertMarkham · 14/09/2023 20:10

Alleycatz · 14/09/2023 16:25

Did he smack you in anger? Or laughing/as a joke? Not a that either are acceptable. Did he ever explain why he did it? If it was hard enough to hurt that much it’s hardly a pat!

Men do these things as controlling power plays. They do it to display dominance.

Edited

Maybe, but I think they're also just sleazy/desperado/opportunistic bastards who take any opportunity to have physical contact/semi sexual contact with women other than their wife/partner .. . Because they don't get many (any?) opportunities elsewhere.

Bet they don't do this with same age as them or older female relatives; it's them getting a good smack/grope/"hug"/forced kiss in with a usually younger woman, who's probably attractive too; opportunistically.

And they can try to cover it up under the guise of affection/family style physical contact. Their wife can't kick off (in their mind) in the same way if it was a stranger.

These men couldn't attract an affair partner easily, not a younger, attractive one, that's for sure. Or even if they could, they know it would blow their life apart. Their only other option is paying for physical contact with you ger attractive woman.

This behaviour is convenient, opportunistic, "cheap" thrills - with BS excuses to cover why they should have that physical contact/touch the woman.

They also pick on DILs because theyre not blood relatives to them.
(The only other younger femaies they may have contact with/access to usually are).

GilbertMarkham · 14/09/2023 20:18

(I'd also say these codgers are so utterly delusional that they think the contact is welcome, their DILs are in some kind of mutual appreciation/flirtation thing with them; if it's their son she's with in particular; well, she fancied his son well enough to shag and marry him, and he's his progenitor so .... She'd probably have had him when he was young (or even now if things were different) .. I find these dudes don't seem to give any thought to their age, or if they even acknowledge it, they're usually the "fine wine, milk" types).

GilbertMarkham · 14/09/2023 20:22

Was he drunk, incidentally, when he smacked you hard enough to hurt you? Or just one of those hand crushing men who are clueless about their own strength.

GoogleMeNot · 14/09/2023 20:53

Balloonhearts · 14/09/2023 19:43

Smack him in the chops and tell mil not to be so overdramatic, it was just an affectionate pat on the cheek.

Yes do this. What a sleazy fucker.

littleripper · 14/09/2023 20:55

You don't need another apology, you need not to see him much and only in a controlled setting. Be careful what you wish for, he'll mistake forgiveness for permission and make your life a misery.

readbooksdrinktea · 14/09/2023 21:06

littleripper · 14/09/2023 20:55

You don't need another apology, you need not to see him much and only in a controlled setting. Be careful what you wish for, he'll mistake forgiveness for permission and make your life a misery.

I'd worry about this, unfortunately.

GodDammitCecil · 14/09/2023 21:21

I agree - an apology will be insincere and meaningless.

I am not one for going NC - it’s not a thing I’ve even had to vaguely consider, but that’s because I’m lucky enough to have decent, reasonable people in my life.

However - I would very much being low-to-no contact with this man.

How he and his wife are not beyond mortified to realise they’re the cause of argument, ructions and fallings-out in other people’s relationships because of his deeply unwelcome and inappropriate behaviour, is beyond me.

He and his wife think it’s laughs and japes - while the people on the receiving end can’t stand him, and his family members partners with those people have, necessarily, lost respect for him.

All so needless and pointless. Just keep your hands to yourself, loser.

LittleObe · 14/09/2023 21:31

'It's not 1980 anymore. I dont have to accept being touched on the bum by a man I didn't want to do that. It's assault and I will react to it as such. It was perverted'

Arghusernamestress · 15/09/2023 07:03

I think you'll find this is very normal lol MILs terrorising DILs and new couple because of unhealthy attachments to oh precious son; is a culture and longstanding deep rooted evil. It's in the fabric of our societis across the globe!

I'm shocked to read some of these accounts. I would have 'instinctively' pushed away [really aggressively and hard] anyone who smacked my bum.

The posters whose FIL grabbed her crotch - I would have 'instinctively' beat the shit out of such a vile bustard at the risk of being called psycho and my marriage ending! Sexual abuse is clearly a deep rooted normalised behaviour in these families. Doesn't mean you have to accept it as an outsider!

One of the things I've found in such settings is, the person who challenges it, is often made to feel 'it's normal', 'it's just nothing', 'you're making a big deal, he was just joking'... and shock horror emotions follow! Let me spell this out...

THIS IS ALL SEXUAL ABUSE ON EVERY LEVEL, HARRASSMENT AND CRIMINAL. IN NO CULTURE, TOUCHING SOMEONE'S BODY, NEVERMIND THEIR 'FORBIDDEN' AREAS; IS ABSOLUTELY CRIMINAL.

Don't let the family members warp your judgement or doubt yourself. Sadly, they're all conditioned to conformity, and to accept it all. There are deep rooted ills in some families, this being the worst kind, that you absolutely should not normalise for yourself. As for spouses, sadly many won't know otherwise, until someone comes in (you) and literally is like WTF IS THIS, mortified! Spouses would have to either get on board, or I would on this part ways. This 'culture' endangers kids! I wouldn't risk the sexual violation of my kids!

Brefugee · 15/09/2023 07:18

They also don't like what a 'militant feminazi' I am

Bidof - next time they come close to saying this say "oh don't you know 'feminazi' is sooooo 2010s. We're 'Feminazgûl' now. Way way worse"

readbooksdrinktea · 15/09/2023 08:47

I'm stealing Feminazgûl.

Brefugee · 15/09/2023 08:49

i can't claim that one as my own original thought, and can't remember where it came from. But I've been using it since i first encountered it (years and years ago, and with permission) as my Twitter nickname

ehupo7 · 15/09/2023 08:55

And a ‘pat’ would be ok? 🤨 According to them?

Who are they to dictate how you respond to their ‘apology’?

It’s not even really an apology either, is it. It’s minimising what happened and dictating how you are allowed to feel about it. The ‘apology’ is a means to an end and is all about the outcome for them – they just want everyone to move on as they have not enjoyed the consequences of his actions.

readbooksdrinktea · 15/09/2023 08:56

Brefugee · 15/09/2023 08:49

i can't claim that one as my own original thought, and can't remember where it came from. But I've been using it since i first encountered it (years and years ago, and with permission) as my Twitter nickname

I like it.

bombastix · 15/09/2023 08:57

Fuck off FIL and MIL too you grovelling handmaiden.

Seriously just don't go to their house. What sort of shit guy puts his hands on a woman like this.

ehupo7 · 15/09/2023 09:00

GodDammitCecil · 14/09/2023 21:21

I agree - an apology will be insincere and meaningless.

I am not one for going NC - it’s not a thing I’ve even had to vaguely consider, but that’s because I’m lucky enough to have decent, reasonable people in my life.

However - I would very much being low-to-no contact with this man.

How he and his wife are not beyond mortified to realise they’re the cause of argument, ructions and fallings-out in other people’s relationships because of his deeply unwelcome and inappropriate behaviour, is beyond me.

He and his wife think it’s laughs and japes - while the people on the receiving end can’t stand him, and his family members partners with those people have, necessarily, lost respect for him.

All so needless and pointless. Just keep your hands to yourself, loser.

Spot on

MariaVT65 · 15/09/2023 09:09

Definitely do not continue a relationship with either of them. My dad used to do this to me frequently as a child/teenager and i haven’t spoken to him since.

It’s also appalling that your MIL thinks it’s ok.

Your DH also needs to educate himself on sexual assault.

wisewoman2023 · 15/09/2023 09:26

Thank you for your support. I do feel as though it was an assault. However, my DH says it was crossing a line and out of order but says he doesn’t think it was an assault. He is pressuring me to have a relationship with them. Even though he is an adult he is very much controlled by them (where as, I’m from a household where my parents raised me to have independence and stand up for myself).

I am devastated by my husbands response to the situation for many reasons but mainly that we were hoping to adopt at some point in the future; and I can’t see us doing that if he doesn’t understand what boundaries are and what assault is.

How do I educate my husband on this?

OP posts:
diddl · 15/09/2023 09:35

How do I educate my husband on this?

If he is trying to force a relationship then I would seriously consider staying with him.

He is trying to minimise what happened & make it acceptable-& seemingly make you accept it.

If his reaction wasn't disgust & to want to not see his dad again I'm not sure that you can educate him.

Even if he agreed with you it seems that he would still take their side as he knows no better/different.

readbooksdrinktea · 15/09/2023 09:38

wisewoman2023 · 15/09/2023 09:26

Thank you for your support. I do feel as though it was an assault. However, my DH says it was crossing a line and out of order but says he doesn’t think it was an assault. He is pressuring me to have a relationship with them. Even though he is an adult he is very much controlled by them (where as, I’m from a household where my parents raised me to have independence and stand up for myself).

I am devastated by my husbands response to the situation for many reasons but mainly that we were hoping to adopt at some point in the future; and I can’t see us doing that if he doesn’t understand what boundaries are and what assault is.

How do I educate my husband on this?

Edited

In the nicest way, please realise that you can't educate a man, who doesn't see that as assault. He is conditioned to accept it because he has probably grown up seeing this and worse.

You don't have to accept it, and you shouldn't. He also absolutely shouldn't pressure you. Draw a line in the sand, OP. And please, please don't bring children into this toxic environment. I'm sorry for you. You have some ground to cover with your husband.

Catza · 15/09/2023 09:43

wisewoman2023 · 15/09/2023 09:26

Thank you for your support. I do feel as though it was an assault. However, my DH says it was crossing a line and out of order but says he doesn’t think it was an assault. He is pressuring me to have a relationship with them. Even though he is an adult he is very much controlled by them (where as, I’m from a household where my parents raised me to have independence and stand up for myself).

I am devastated by my husbands response to the situation for many reasons but mainly that we were hoping to adopt at some point in the future; and I can’t see us doing that if he doesn’t understand what boundaries are and what assault is.

How do I educate my husband on this?

Edited

This is a slightly tricky matter as under the British law an assault is "any act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer or apprehend immediate unlawful violence". So your husband may argue that since the intent wasn't violence, this would not constitute an assault.
There is clearly a case of "unwanted touch" which may or may not fall under sexual assault.
The bottom line is, your FIL's behaviour is inappropriate whatever you call it. And this is what your husband needs to get on board with, not how it is defined legally. I would be concerned that if your husband lets it slide, it may be highly likely he considers physical punishment and controlling behaviour towards children appropriate also. And this would definitely be an assault. I think you need to discuss this seriously before committing to an adoption.
Either way, he should not be forcing you to have a relationship with your family as this is also controlling behaviour. Whichever way you look at it, the situation sucks.

TragicMuse · 15/09/2023 09:49

Adding to what @readbooksdrinktea says, not only can you not being a child into the sphere of people who don't respect boundaries and those who minimise what happens, you absolutely cannot do that in the context of adoption.

Looked-after children will already have experienced some degree of trauma and it would be immoral and unconscionable to have people in their lives that you know are not safe. If they don't respect you as a fully grown adult how on Earth can you expect them to respect your child? Will your husband excuse anything they do and gaslight his own child?

Absolutely not. No way. And tbh, I wonder if he'd even get through home study with that as part of his response to his childhood. It's not what has happened to a person, it's how they have responded to it and learnt. And he is still excusing dreadful behaviour from his parents and not protecting you. That wouldn't fly with social workers, in my experience...

MariaVT65 · 15/09/2023 10:03

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-sexual-assault/

I would show him some online websites as a start OP, which describe touching you inappropriately WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT as assault. He needs to understand that the area your FIL touched is considered a ‘sexual’ area and it was touched/smacked without your consent, and that is assault. It is counted as groping.

What is sexual assault?

Sexual assault happens when someone touches another person in a sexual manner – or makes that person take part in sexual activity with them – without consent.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-sexual-assault/

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