Young men hating women

[Maatandosiris]

Something I’ve been noticing is that young men (say under 30) are becoming increasingly misogynistic. Not in the old fashioned dirty old man way but very aggressively trying to take away women’s voices. Anything they can do to undermine you they will, whether it’s criticising politics, eating habits, looks, viewpoints. Any excuse to undermine women they jump on it (aided and abetted by some women I should add)

AIBU to wonder whether all the fighting for rights and equality has been pointless and young girls generally seem content to be treated like shit to the point I’m not sure many actually see the threat. How the hell did we get here? In the past week I’ve had a man gaslight me and try and undermine me in a discussion as a “rebel” for quoting the suffragettes, had a bunch of blokes gang up on me and chuck me off a forum for saying transrights need balancing with women’s rights followed by inaccurate allegations and ignored on a discussion simply because I was female. Not long ago I was told that the way to make things more female friendly was to make them less academic

We literally seem to be reverting back to women make yourself look pretty whilst listening to the views of the oh so intelligent men.

AIBU to think in20 years time women’s rights are going to dead unless women, inc young women start standing up to be counted.

You are correct you didn't specify which Country. I apologise. I guess the suffragette comment from you made me think along those lines.

But the same thing still stands. You cannot use online social media interactions from completely different Countries to make a claim on a UK website of male behaviour. After all, you could be using the current Afghan regime as proof of mysogyny.

@Littlepinkstarsbyradish

"Lots of men are having to mind their language and moderate their viewpoints in public for fear of challenge and they dont like it. Tough shit"

Oh the irony....

Don't necessarily disagree with you, at least when it comes to cat-calling, talking about women's looks, etc. in a laddish manner, but one person's inappropriate is another's norm.

The double-standards in terms of acceptability used to be all in favour of men, they've switched, but the reality is the real nasty men continue to behave as they always did and the decent (ish) men feeling progressively more isolated and angry with society continue down their spiral of incel bullshit.

@AuContraire

"These angry men whip each other up into a wank-rage" - quote of the thread 😂

I was at school / college / uni early 2000s to mid 2000s and I don't think it is any worse (or better) really now. I think the misogyny is different.

Only 15 years ago it was very common to be openly groped and sexually harassed in classroom. The sexual double standard was strong and I certainly felt boys and men really hated us, at a core level.

Because they have influence and money. Plenty of women will still seek that in a man above any other issues or concerns.

I think only a fool would deny this is an increasing problem.
The internet has enabled these men to find each other and validate their hatred. And it is hatred. We are under attack and the longer we refuse to see it the worse it will be for us.

Yanbu

I think extreme activists and the media have a large responsibility for this. The same with the increase of racism and homophobiia : instead of patiently and kindly working to overcome the disparity and hurdles people in this country are constantly told what they are "allowed to think" and that disagreement is the same as hatred. Sometimes they are not just told they're not allowed a different opinion but all of a sudden legal change is pushed through without any reference to popular opinion, voter agreement or a mandate from the population. Hence all of a sudden we have a billion new genders we all have to respect and anyone questioning this gets fired, cancelled, vilified, etc
This is exactly why society generally is getting worse and sadly that includes misogyny.

I work in IT too, I've been about different companies a fair bit. Some places, definitely, have a bad culture.

At my last company, during a meeting one guy was describing an interaction with his wife that was just awful. A new, female, employee was talk about and they joked about going into the office to check her out and letching over her via office camera. The team leader was part of that. I think of around 60-80 employees there was around 4 women in total. Only one of those was below senior management level

Then there's the inappropriate relationship between a manager & team member at a different place. HR did the right thing and fired him, but universally every man who talked about it with me thought badly of her & blamed her for his exit. None of them hung out with her, or talked with her anymore than they had to for work. I was, literally, the only man who did. Men were at least 95% of the people in the office. Unsurprisingly, she left before too long.

There's more stories but I don't want to depress you. My current employer has many issues, they seem pretty decent on the equality front so far as I can tell, which is nice

On whose metric are 1,000 men making misogynistic comments/ lewd remarks to this woman over the course of her lifetime far-fetched? Yours? A man? Ahhh, okay.

Let me break this down for you. Most women in the Global North - let's say the UK - start getting sexually harassed from around age 11. It's not as bad as it used to be but I reckon most women on this thread will agree with what I just said. When I think back to my teens, I got harassed pretty much every time I went to school. But for the sake of not being 'far-fetched' let's say it happened twice a week. So 52 x 2 = 104 times a year. So by the time I was 21, I would have had 1,000 or so such experiences.

Then factor in how much more you go out when you're in your 20s, how you do sport, how you enter the working world ... and whatever the Daily Mail tells you, it doesn't stop when you hit 35. It goes on and on and on and on and I just think it will never stop, until I die.

The only far-fetched thing about 1,000 men is how very fucking low the estimate is ...

And another thing - the nature and definition of what a woman is, is not 'tiny'. Not for us. Single sex spaces are one of the main reasons it's just 1,000 men in a decade.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

I was nine years old, the first time I remember a lewd remark being made about me. On a coach coming back from a school trip, I overheard two slightly older male schoolmates discussing all the girls on the bus and when they got to me their comment was "the trouble with [Sirens] is she's got no tits yet".

Nine years old and already being judged on the size of my not-yet-developed breasts.

One year later when I moved into middle school, it turned out to have a pervert teacher on the staff. Nothing too overt but constant, low-level creepiness: hands on the shoulders, fiddling with our hair or shirt collar, comments on whether we were wearing knee or ankle socks, that kind of thing. This was the late 70s/early 80s...how much do you think young girls were listened to or taken seriously even when we were finally able to articulate to ourselves that this wasn't right?

And on and on and on it went. Everything from being belittled because I tried to opine on something in front of men; lewd/unwanted comments; catcalls in the street that turned to anger and snarls of "fuck off then you dyke minger" when brushed off (because obviously any woman who doesn't find some rando on the street alluring must be a lesbian 🙄); groping, outright sexual assault; sexist 'banter'...when I look back and think of it all it feels fucking relentless.

To the contrary it is the woke left who are far more misogynistic

Is it?

I thought recent research showed that women are becoming more liberated and left wing, and as this happens men are simultaneously becoming more right wing.

Tell me some ‘woke left’ men who are more dangerous than Andrew Tate?

I definitely think porn has done a number on a lot of men's minds. It's really sad actually.

I know a few guys in real life that have picked up on this online and now live this in their proper lives. I keep tapes in them purely to be able to warn younger women who might fall for it.

It’s more influencers like Tate, Peterson etc who have pretending there’s some kind of intellectual argument going on

Yes this, it’s not a coincidence women’s rights in this country are eroded by arch conservative focus groups from the US.

Yes I agree I see comments on social media posts belittling women for doing just about anything. They are clearly wanting to stem the growing confidence of women because it is intimidating to them

What I have really noticed on FB is the number of men who put the horrible belittling 😂 face on any article to do with women's rights, or any women's issues. And on the comments, you'll see the same names putting the lolz emoticon on any comment written by anyone making a point about women's rights. I had a look at some guy's profile who was doing it on one article yesterday. He has a baby daughter, God help her

Prevalence and availability of porn, social media's ability to provide anonymity (or near anonymity) and the way algorithms function are primary culprits, I think.

I watched a video recently demonstrating how the algorithm on Tiktok can function as a pipeline to right-wing fundamentalist ideology. A guy created an account 'posing' (I say posing but he wasn't trying to dupe anyone. Just using the inputted data as an experiment) as a 13yo boy. He watched one video by Andrew Tate and his entire feed was pumped with content from the alt right within a matter of hours. It's scary.

@Maatandosiris
I'm not sure how to copy to reply to your comment " Why don't women stand up to them"

I have talked to friends about this, women and I'm told its not happening in real life, just online. It doesn't apply to them. These are women between 24 and 50. Some work and have young children. Most have male partners who expect the little woman to earn and do the home stuff, even though they pay the same and don't have children.

My sons father, my ex of 12 years told me I was a bigot and a transphobe and to leave his house during a discussion of women's rights etc. My son talks like him and is quite misogynistic despite me.

Male friends say leave it alone and think its a joke.

I'm glad i don't have daughters and can self exclude more and leave if things get worse.

Maybe that's why women don't stand up.

It’s the lefty woke bros who are behind the whole misogynistic trans agenda.

But to be honest it is too simplistic to break down misogyny into left wing good right wing bad.
I know plenty of ‘progressive’ men who are extremely misogynistic.
As Germaine Greer said, “women have no idea how much men hate them”.
The Yorkshire Ripper was a working class labour voter for example.

I hope you're wrong, as this is not my experience. Back in my younger days (70s), the misogyny was blatant - far worse than today. Social media tends to highlight the extreme and the crazy, but it could influence younger people's expectations. Let's hope not.

Tbh I have sometimes thought I’d be better off in the 70s. At least feminism existed back then.
Now all we have is PornHub 🫤

Some young men do tend to think to much of themselves IMAO but then so do some young women so it’s probably an age thing.