Young men hating women

[Maatandosiris]

Something I’ve been noticing is that young men (say under 30) are becoming increasingly misogynistic. Not in the old fashioned dirty old man way but very aggressively trying to take away women’s voices. Anything they can do to undermine you they will, whether it’s criticising politics, eating habits, looks, viewpoints. Any excuse to undermine women they jump on it (aided and abetted by some women I should add)

AIBU to wonder whether all the fighting for rights and equality has been pointless and young girls generally seem content to be treated like shit to the point I’m not sure many actually see the threat. How the hell did we get here? In the past week I’ve had a man gaslight me and try and undermine me in a discussion as a “rebel” for quoting the suffragettes, had a bunch of blokes gang up on me and chuck me off a forum for saying transrights need balancing with women’s rights followed by inaccurate allegations and ignored on a discussion simply because I was female. Not long ago I was told that the way to make things more female friendly was to make them less academic

We literally seem to be reverting back to women make yourself look pretty whilst listening to the views of the oh so intelligent men.

AIBU to think in20 years time women’s rights are going to dead unless women, inc young women start standing up to be counted.

There are also lots of other, better role models.

Yanbu it's a real problem. I'd say it's not just young men lots of men in their 30s like this from my experience

I come across this often online. Particularly on Instagram reels.

in the real world I work in IT: so mainly with men: and I have never noticed any misogyny from colleagues. Young men in particular tend to be very respectful to me (I’m a fat, not particularly attractive woman in my 40s: so it’s not because they fancy me)

I'm glad I don't come across this.

Oh yeah so dreadful, but hey, at least we’re not wanking over videos of women choking, humiliating and hurting younger vulnerable men or raping them, or beating them or murdering them on a weekly basis, or putting cameras in their toilets to put on the internet, or buying them for our sexual pleasure and reviewing them on ukpunting… But yeah, mumsnet. 🙄

I read that thread, there were loads of comments about how it could impact men too, seems you have selective reading.

@Naunet well yes that's extreme and I would find any men (or women) who would engage in that absolutely revolting.
But there is a lot of anti men comments that is a bit over the top - people suggesting LTB over fairly mundane things.

Nor are the majority of men. Please don't tar all men based on a few bad uns.

As for paying for sexual pleasure. Firstly it is legal, no matter what your personal morals are. Secondly Women can also purchase sexual company if she so desires. Albeit much less likely than men.

’Not all men’ followed by your second paragraph. Yuck.

Lobby your member of parliament for a law change then. Until the law is changed it isn't up to anyone else to decide the morality of others.

Really we need more men to stand up and call that behaviour out.

I know we shouldn't, it should be enough for a woman to call it out herself but there are not enough solid male role models for young men. They aren't getting positive messages at home so if noone steps up in their school/ community/ pub/ workplace where else are they meant to get a better message.

I think a lot of young men are struggling with the concept of what it is to be a man, what you should look like, feel like and behave and many don't have any space where they're able to openly explore that in a safe and reflective way. Youth centres who predominantly take on this work are being underfunded more than ever which limits the amount they can actually do.

Lots of them are now getting their info online and end up in echo chambers as a result since when you show an 'interest' in something (say watching a misogynistic video) the algorithm will automatically start throwing up more of the same. Social media platforms don't do enough to challenge this. And I think for young women, many of them see flaws and gaps in how feminism is presented a lot of the time and therefore struggle to identify and engage with it

Lobby your member of parliament for a law change then. Until the law is changed it isn't up to anyone else to decide the morality of others.

I suspect you’ve forgotten that I can have any opinion on morality that I like. Even when men tell me otherwise. Pesky women with their opinions on the internet!

Definitely agree, in particular online. Can get quite nasty. I’ve had young men come at me when I talk about women’s rights etc. Been told their opinions are just as relevant and correct as mine, despite me giving my opinion as an actual woman and based on my lived experience in respect of how women are treated. And of course I’ve been accused of being transphobic when I’ve said nothing that could be construed as such. I think a lot of them just use social media as a way to take out their anger at women in general.

You can of course have any opinion you like. I personally don't think though, that becoming antagonistic over something that is entirely legal is doing the cause of equality any good whatsoever.

Downunderduchess
I don't think that is just a male thing. People say things behind a computer screen they would never dream of face to face.

My personal feeling is those with extremely strong feelings about misogyny or misandry find themselves in certain corners of the net & surround themselves with echo chamber similar views. That is what needs addressed.

I think the boys and young men of today have grown up in a post-metoo world and this is going to have an impact.

The message for years now has been "girls: you can do this, be this, have that, you CAN do x, y, z if you want, you are perfect, don't let anyone hold you back".

Whereas with boys, its "don't do this, don't say that, x y z is toxic masculinity, don't copy his behaviour, don't be like him, be better, etc etc" A near-constant negative message.

There's also a rhetoric that women and girls are full of virtue and lightness and perfection, which isn't true and I think a lot of young people call out the double standards.

I think the sort of people you're talking about are kids and teenagers, who naturally have a very narrow view of the world and are fairly self centred. They only see what's around them, so are far less likely to show the compassion you expect to see.

I will say that in real life, I work with some men of around 25 and they're always decent and polite.

I think it's mostly an internet thing you're talking about. And you can find any and every sort of behaviour online.

So they don't like having to compete on a level playing field (well, more level than it was. Still not level by any means yet they are still complaining!). Fundamentally it shows that there is still an "othering" or women in such people's mentality and they believe women are worth less than them hence the bruised egos when with the same opportunities more women are becoming graduates etc, per the article. Effectively they want to blame women for their failure to achieve their goals. Not a good look!

This is the classic thing of somebody so used to privilege that they feel entitled to it and therefore when their unfair advantage is reduced (not even removed) they paint themselves as a victim.

I think this is largely it: it's the losers who are angry, that women do not need or want them.

Normal, decent men have no reason to be angry at women and aren't because they will also have successful lives so are not looking for a scapegoat to blame like the losers and incels with their (usually self-inflicted!) misfortune.

@CallumDansTransitVan In my experience it is overwhelmingly men being aggressive in their comments to me online. The disrespect they appear to have towards women is appalling.

I don’t know, I do think there is a current backlash against feminism but not sure it’s particularly coming from young men particularly other than specific demographics eg incels etc. My mid teenage son and his friends seem pretty feminist. They are also very pro trans rights and I know different people see that topic differently.

I definitely see it online and I agree it's a backlash against feminism.

I think it's also a shoddy attempt at humour. It seems to be competitive online about what the worst possible thing they can post about is. I think that's likely not helped by strong censorship on social media. It makes it 'cool' to break the rules - and with anonymity too. I'm not sure how genuine it is in their real life. I doubt they'd say those things out loud.

But generally, I find the men I know are much more likely to call themselves a feminist these days. It's almost to the point I find it quite tedious. It feels more like showboating to me sometimes.

I find younger men more respectful now than 20 years ago when I was a teenager. Like a pp poster said, if a young man was to go in Mumsnet it would appear most women hate men.

I think there's been a bit of a push back from certain type of men following the feminist movements. They're men who feel their rights have been eroded by women's rights. That coupled with social media giving more fringe groups a voice.

Andrew Tate is an example of a type of toxic masculinity that some men (and women) find appealing. It's a real concern how many young men are taken in my it. I was shocked by secondary school DS saying how many boys he knew watched his videos/agree with him.

It's something I hear about (incel/Andrew Tate etc) but haven't experienced in my life. I work at a university and deal with lots of male students (including Masters and PhD students). I also have a lot of young male colleagues in their 20s. They're all extremely polite and respectful. I remember thinking they are more mature and polite than young men were 30 years ago, when I was young.

I notice it when driving and so does my DD.

I've had the displeasure to have my algorithm to lead me into red pill tiktok.

Thankfully I haven't had too many runins with tater tots. But a few male colleagues have really surprised me with how they talk with other men in the office when they don't think women can hear them