Young men hating women

[Maatandosiris]

Something I’ve been noticing is that young men (say under 30) are becoming increasingly misogynistic. Not in the old fashioned dirty old man way but very aggressively trying to take away women’s voices. Anything they can do to undermine you they will, whether it’s criticising politics, eating habits, looks, viewpoints. Any excuse to undermine women they jump on it (aided and abetted by some women I should add)

AIBU to wonder whether all the fighting for rights and equality has been pointless and young girls generally seem content to be treated like shit to the point I’m not sure many actually see the threat. How the hell did we get here? In the past week I’ve had a man gaslight me and try and undermine me in a discussion as a “rebel” for quoting the suffragettes, had a bunch of blokes gang up on me and chuck me off a forum for saying transrights need balancing with women’s rights followed by inaccurate allegations and ignored on a discussion simply because I was female. Not long ago I was told that the way to make things more female friendly was to make them less academic

We literally seem to be reverting back to women make yourself look pretty whilst listening to the views of the oh so intelligent men.

AIBU to think in20 years time women’s rights are going to dead unless women, inc young women start standing up to be counted.

The request for figures was made to Sueveneers.

I'm not sure I buy that it's worse now, but clearly still a problem amongst lads.

But for these 'incels', I think there is growing polarisation (on everything actually) as people get locked into their SM echo-chambers. Almost certainly the majority were normal enough young men - at least no more misogynist than others - who have grown bitter as they're sucked in. To want a partner and not have one... no-one else's fault or problem, but feels unfair.

Someone mentioned Manchester United players as bad role-models - do men look at them and think "I want to be like that"? My guess is the incel sees him with the beautiful woman on his arm (ref. arrival at Getafe) and head back to their part of the internet for comfort. It's sad in many ways, but potentially dangerous.

What number of men being misogynistic, threatening or intimidating towards women would be acceptable to you?

Why is the response so often “don’t believe you, prove it” instead of “that’s shocking, how can we good men help shut it down?” I mean, it’s not as if there is not a shit-ton of evidence of SOME men’s hatred of women in murder / rape / assault / DV figures, on websites such as Terfisaslur, in the crowds that try to shut down just about any gathering of women wanting to speak about their rights and concerns, etc etc et-fucking-cetera.

Many of the men and women on the internet are not a good example. But then neither are many in sports that are upheld as heroes.

The 'prejudiced views' are the ones that she has of males.

As for the rest, if we are to get rid of these misogynistic views it would require rebuilding society from the ground up and both men and women would have to change drastically for it to work.

When the numbers being quoted seem extremely far fetched I consider it to be a fair question.

The post made by Sueveneers states she has experienced face to face mysogyny or aggressive behavior from circa 1,000 men. If we said as an example, that was 10% of the men she meets, she would of had to have had an in depth enough interaction face to face with 10,000 men. That to me sounds unlikely.

The trans situation is a completely seperate and an infinitely tiny scenario to try to use as proof of mysogyny.

So what “prejudiced views” do I have of males?

The bad boy thing doesn't help. Greenwood should be the one who is an Incel but women often get drawn to the worst types of men and then it perpetuates the bad boy stereotype.

Say what you want about Andrew Tate but he's certainly not an Incel. Why do women go for these awful men?

Sueveneers · Today 10:54

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 10:37

Not our experience of our 20 year old and his friends/our son in law or nephews.

Get off SM.

“OR, maybe social media allows these men to show what they really feel on social media behind a keyboard and that's when the real them comes out.”

What a very sad perspective.

Men who spend all their time on the internet usually have major issues. I actually think mysogyny has reduced but the internet has given a voice to crackpots who usually wouldn’t be listened to.

AnIndianWoman · Today 22:36

Men who spend all their time on the internet usually have major issues. I actually think mysogyny has reduced but the internet has given a voice to crackpots who usually wouldn’t be listened to.”

Spot on.

If you want to go back through the thread, you will find my initial post partly supports what you said. The discussion has now evolved into looking at possible reasons why.

But to go back to that original response. Being critical of anothers politics, viewpoints, looks or indeed what they eat, isn't being prejudicial. You do it, I do it, The local Vicar does it. It is just part and parcel of being human.

Andrew Tate caused a fair chunk of this. That and the 'Karenising' of women who dare to speak up for themselves.

A feminist?! You must hate trans people then, and that means we hate YOU.

One giant leap backwards in an ocean of regression.

Bad times indeed.

@CallumDansTransitVan you said “Again online posts are not really representative of a cross setion of men. It will also depend on which forum you are on at the time. As several others have said. There is a higher than average posts here on Mumsnet that are contradictory about what is acceptable male behaviour or female.”

However, I actually think it is a good cross section of men, instagram for example is where I encounter most of the aggression in responses from men. They are from different countries, cultures, occupations, age groups etc. The hostility is the same though. And attacking someone’s appearance is standard when they feel they are losing the argument.

The men posting on here these days seem to have very similar voices. 🤔

The trans situation is a completely seperate and an infinitely tiny scenario to try to use as proof of mysogyny.

Anyone who has had involvement with or knows anything about trans rights activism will recognise that this simply isn't the case. Whether it ever metamorphosed from the less nefarious aim of actually protecting and improving the lives of trans people it's hard to say, but it now has little if anything to do with actual trans rights. The 'Q' area of TQ, the normalizing of specific behaviour which has led to widespread safeguarding concerns is a case in point.

The aggressive, disproportionate response to even tentative dissenting voices should tell you this much. The movement has been largely hijacked by male supremacism.

But these incel online men are not just some lone crackpots who we can ignore because they're irrelevant. They walk amongst us, they are our sons/husbands/brothers/friends, as hard as that is for us to acknowledge. They pose a considerable threat to women and society. The US high-school shooters, we hear about very often have a background of misogyny and hatred towards women. We've had Incels like Eliott Rogers mass killing women because they hate them. These young men are generally radicalised online. The US authorities have labelled these online manosohere groups as domestic terrorists. They're not just some lone crackpots, they are dangerous to women and we ignore them at our own peril.

I've only really come across this online. Not to say it's not happening of course.

Using remarks from men across the globe on instagram is not in the slightest representative of UK men as a whole. A man posting from Arab culture will have completely different values. Same with some Muslim communities around the world.

SerafinasGoose
If you look at one of my previous posts in this thread about the trans issue I don't support them in using Womens changing areas toilets etc, and my personal feeling is that a lot of it is mental illness rather than genuine trapped in wrong body stuff. Most men I speak to feel the same.

I have also on this thread spoken out against unisex toilets or changing. I don't really want to be in the same place as Women changing as it leaves me open to false allegations.

Oh look, CallumTheRacistWhiteVanMan is also an MRA. Quelle surprise.

Using remarks from men across the globe on instagram is not in the slightest representative of UK men as a whole.

Where did the OP say she was specifically referring to men in the UK?

@CallumDansTransitVan I’m not British and I don’t live in the UK, the internet is world wide.

I see a lot more responses in the region of “women have more social power now, you can’t say anything anymore without women complaining of sexism”

to which my response is always “well yes, of course you can’t just say anything anymore!”

Lots of men are having to mind their language and moderate their viewpoints in public for fear of challenge and they dont like it. Tough shit 🤷🏻‍♀️ Welcome to the world lads

I think porn has a lot to do with it.

Obviously porn is most violent sexual abuse of women, which boys & young men learn to think of as "sex" and then want to reenact this with girls/women.

Women and girls see porn and think "er, no thanks, that doesn't look fun" and so fewer want to have sex with men.

Men then get angry because their masculinity is at risk or something if they are having sex, and they take to social media to complain about how women are bitches for not giving them the sex they're due.

These angry men whip each other up into a wank-rage over women's insubordinance and how women have too many rights these days, making them even less appealing to women, and the cycle perpetuates.

Incel men's social issues also make it less likely they will be successful in holding down jobs or progressing in jobs etc so they become even more angry and online.

Exactly, I didn’t. Because of the groups I’m part of many of these men are in the US. Although I think, thanks to social media American culture is a massive influence around the world esp amongst young people (including in the Uk)

If you look for something online, you will find it.

I'm not a 12 year old boy so I have never before watched an Andrew Tate video. I know he's accused of human trafficking which seems crazy to me.

But I can't help but feel that all this furore has been manufactured. The backlash from schools "banning" him being discussed is what has led.to him gaining his status.

If they had ignored him, he'd just be another flash in the pan bloke with a TikTok account and no one would know who he was.