Young men hating women

[Maatandosiris]

Something I’ve been noticing is that young men (say under 30) are becoming increasingly misogynistic. Not in the old fashioned dirty old man way but very aggressively trying to take away women’s voices. Anything they can do to undermine you they will, whether it’s criticising politics, eating habits, looks, viewpoints. Any excuse to undermine women they jump on it (aided and abetted by some women I should add)

AIBU to wonder whether all the fighting for rights and equality has been pointless and young girls generally seem content to be treated like shit to the point I’m not sure many actually see the threat. How the hell did we get here? In the past week I’ve had a man gaslight me and try and undermine me in a discussion as a “rebel” for quoting the suffragettes, had a bunch of blokes gang up on me and chuck me off a forum for saying transrights need balancing with women’s rights followed by inaccurate allegations and ignored on a discussion simply because I was female. Not long ago I was told that the way to make things more female friendly was to make them less academic

We literally seem to be reverting back to women make yourself look pretty whilst listening to the views of the oh so intelligent men.

AIBU to think in20 years time women’s rights are going to dead unless women, inc young women start standing up to be counted.

I agree OP. A few years ago I was chatting to a housemate in his mid 20s who I generally get on well with. I brought something up I’d seen in the news that negatively impacted women’s rights at the time - not in a confrontational way, just because I valued his opinion. I was very surprised when his frankly waspish reply that as a white cis het male he was at the bottom of the pile and implied that women are over run with privilege. And it was done in a quite “putting me in my place” tone. We’re still friends to a degree but I absolutely avoid controversial subjects now.

I think there’s a bit of a spectrum with the likes of Jordan Peterson and his big words at one end and Andrew Tate at the other.It is definitely escalating in some quarters.

You see, I don’t “hate men” I’ve always had mainly male friends. Generally the men I come across in my age rage say mid 30s to mid 50s are generally very supportive of women and understand the issues women face now and in the past.

I was specifically asking about younger men who seem much more misogynistic and aggressive towards women and much less likely to support women’s voices.

Yes I agree there seems a lot more role models for this kind of thinking.

I’ve just come across this bit of research that suggests this really is a thing springing out of young men feeling threatened

https://neurosciencenews.com/sexism-womens-rights-21520/

We are rolling backwards and gaining pace.

The attitudes and behaviour I deal with in the boardroom/work space from young, inexperienced men is really astonishing.

My ds 29 and his mates are nothing like your description.

I don't think it's a majority, and I don't think it's any better or worse than it was when I was young. The difference is that we didn't have the internet or social media. If you go looking for it, you'll find it.

I've noticed it. In my bubble at work it's easy - I think education has always been an easier place for women to be. Definitely when I'm outside work I've noticed the shift though. I think it's to do with the fact that some of the red pill movement Haa become more mainstream in the past couple of years. Most people have heard of Andrew Tate but there are a lot of really negative influences taking up space.

My son is 29 and for the most part respectful of women as are most of his peers. Myself and my late Mum had a lot of influence in his life, obviously. My ExH who was his step-father from the age of three, was forever undermining us in very subtle ways while claiming to be pro-feminist. For example, encouraging DS to hide (serious) risk taking behaviour from us, which we could have helped him with, giving the message that we would over-react etc. He liked to play the “all boys together” card, and imply we were unqualified to understand cos “women”.

Which is part of the reason he’s my Ex.

Fortunately, aside from the odd “Karen” references, which I nipped in the bud sharpish, DS is a good egg. Or appears to be, and I haven’t heard anything otherwise from any quarter.

I’m not a man hater by any stretch, but younger men do seem more hostile these days. I’ve confronted a few local lads who on one occasion squirted a drink over my shop window while looking me straight in the eyes above his edgy mask, and on another “borrowed” one of the chairs outside my shop which I had to retrieve and got pelted with sweets for my trouble.

On both occasions I went ballistic at them, and fortunately I’ve had no more trouble. I think they don’t expect to be challenged by middle aged women- since I was widowed last year I have no fucks left to give, and I won’t stand for it.

Op I think you have a point, to a degree, but and here's the but...there was a post on mn this morning from a woman who was ttc. Her partner brother has got his fairly new girlfriend pregnant. Naturally she was upset. Her partner tried to console her but started playing on his Xbox.

Not one response that I read said anything about the fact the man could be struggling to. He was called all the names under the sun. She was told not to have children with him.

The point I am making is that young men see lots of social media where women are as bad as men. In the post I've mentioned, there was no consideration for the man.

I'm binge watching hells kitchen. They split the contestants into 2 teams male and female. In season 4 the female team openly say that they will use their femininity to split the male team...the next scene is the women in skimpy bikinis in the hot tub trying to get certain men to join them.

So young men see this. They hear some of the crap that certain influencers spout and ....

Younger men also grew up with knternet porn, also internet - many, manu sites filled with hatred towards women.
Add to that women now can choose if they want a relationship/have sex/ what kind of men they want to date, if they want to date at all.
Back in the day, women had much less choices, being single (there is still a lot of stigma for women to be single, but it is little better) was frowned upon heavily.
Men didn’t have to do or be anything, any broke, violent, alcoholic, misogynystic, ugly men could easily have a wife.
Now men have to be something, bring something positive to the woman’s life.
Of course many, many women STILL have no standards and would for example date a man who watches porn etc, but not all women are desperate or fools anymore.
So that angers many men, girlfriend/wife is no linger guaranteed like they were for their fathers and grandfathers.
Also women can leave any moment they want, they don’t have to put up with bullshit, that’s scares men.
They aren’t in control anymore, that much at least.

There is free speech in the UK though and people are also exposed to other countries’ cultural norms worldwide which many unfortunately are misogynistic.

*Ive brought my son up to respect women, but even at 11 I can already see some of the boys being less than respectful to girls, I can see it in their Dads too though.

Why don’t all women stand up against them?*

I dealt with male bullies as a child from primary through secondary, stood up for myself, and guess what happened? Nothing other than a time out for them. Never got an apology nor were they made/told to. There is still a mentality that “boys will be boys”, “they disrespect you because they like you”, and don’t get me started on the religious aspects that too many males use as an excuse/reason to say women are lesser, should be obeying/serving them and happy to do so.

I don’t think so.

This is not to say that incels and misogyny aren’t a problem, because they are, only that I don’t think it’s ever gone away.

I ran an expert hosted YT channel in about 2011 and the comments about the female hosts were vile, and I came up against plenty of misogyny since being a teen in the late 80s.

I guess thousands of years of male domination aren’t going to get fixed in a few generations.

Agree

”young girls generally seem content to be treated like shit to the point I’m not sure many actually see the threat…women’s rights are going to dead unless women, inc young women start standing up to be counted.”

You are way off base with this. Stop blaming the victims. Patriarchy is the problem, it’s always been the problem, and it’s not our fault. Your statement is misogynistic! Get a grip.

I'm binge watching hells kitchen. They split the contestants into 2 teams male and female. In season 4 the female team openly say that they will use their femininity to split the male team...the next scene is the women in skimpy bikinis in the hot tub trying to get certain men to join them

funnily enough i have also just finished binging them, the men constantly called the women bitches and skanks and were very derogatory…they also ganged up to try and make sure certain women lost

I am seeing it with a lot of our young lads. A lot of incel/mgtow/manosphere ckntent makes jt way onto tiktok etc.

@Elvis1956 you must have missed the part in that thread were the OP had previously spoken to him about how pregnancy announcements etc upset her and he said that they don't register with him. He also wouldn't go for a simple hormone test "because he obviously didn't have a problem".

"Ive brought my son up to respect women, but even at 11 I can already see some of the boys being less than respectful to girls, I can see it in their Dads too though"

What I'm finding shocking is the open hostility/challenging/verbal abuse I have got out of nowhere from lads 11+ when out with my GC in parks etc. I lost sight of my GC one day so looked about, to be met with "what the fuck are you looking at, repeatedly to get a reaction, even though I didn't look in the about 13 years old direction. I've been physically challenged by young teen lads, who loudly come out with Incel crap. I was whisked at by two local lads both eleven, who are going to be horrific in a couple of years.

I don’t like the way men view single mums as easy/slags/desperate for a shag/loose like a wizard’s sleeve/after a meal ticket/money scroungers for claiming child maintenance.

Men also take great pleasure in laughing at women who are struggling eg living in an overcrowded home while the father does the bare minimum for his kids. They all respite to ridiculing the way she looks and say she should have kept her legs shut and not been a slag. Really winds me up!
Especially when I saw an article about a single dad who was struggling with his living conditions on his own and not one man mentioned the way he looked and how he should have kept his dick in his pants. 🙄. The comments section was just full of support about how amazing he is (mainly from women). And even women don’t get the support from other women when it’s an article about a single mum and it’s on Facebook.

respite = resort

Using online experiences gives an entirely skewed perception of any behaviours. Male or Female. But there is no doubt a section of young men dissatisfied with their lives and are now begining to rebel. I think bourne out of a feeling of alienation, From being chastised for doing or saying things that if done or said by a Woman would be acceptable.
OP, I doubt you haven't been involved with discussion about anothers looks, viewpoints, politics etc. If we are classing things like that as misogyny, we really are in trouble.

What I do believe is that we have to be very careful that while encouraging Men to see Women as equals, we don't erode the rights or feelings of young Men and push them towards the sort of misogyny promoted by idiots like Andrew Tate.

An example would be a group of Women down the pub telling tales and slagging off men would be OK. But reverse the genders and it becomes misogyny.
or
Using Mumsnet as example, I have seen countless posts where if eg a man isn't performing in the bedroom, The forum consensus is leave him, Take a lover. With the roles reversed, The man would be told to suck it up.

A degree of tolerance & acceptance within reason is required or the other option is that neither sex can have an opinion.

The reality is that these little bar stewards often speak to men they perceive as weaker in the same way. Part of that imo has come from a lack of fear for consequences for their behaviour. The parents and police do nothing about it and if reported the courts hold no fear for them. Equally if a group of them come up to me and start aggressive behaviour, if I was to defend myself in any way I am the one in trouble.

Add to that women now can choose if they want a relationship/have sex/ what kind of men they want to date, if they want to date at all.

If you're a regular on mumsnet then you'll know these seem to be just the type mumsnetters go for.

I no longer have much interaction with younger people other than my daughters friends and they all seem fine. They just treat the girls same as the boys.

Yeah, I know, that’s why I said that many women still have low standards.
But not all of them do.
So that leaves many men out.
Thah being said, I don’t believe single men actually are the only problem.
Sometimes it seem the men in relationship/marriage are the one’s who hate the women the most.
The single one’s may be spouting non-sense online, but the men men who have women in their lives are the one’s doing physical harm.

I can't say specifically because I don't interact with them much these days. I would just like to say that this is expected to happen within certain groups of men because the “male” category is in a transition phase from all-powerful rulers to a mixed group of undefined and radicalized boys. Some of them might think this is women's fault and hence their not very friendly approach towards women. It generally takes longer for males to reach adult maturity than females. Maybe this generation of younger men you refer to is just going through a sort of late-onset puberty for many possible reasons that are personal, but generally speaking, the internet and social media are certainly a catalyst for this sort of behaviour, where you can find all sorts of things being posted without moderation. Do you think this behaviour is different when they are alone and not amongst other men or groups of people? I ask because everything nowadays revolves around groups, categories, labels. Do you think each one of them might have a different reason for their behaviour or that they're just following the 'trend'?

Yeah I've noticed this, young men are growing up learning about consent and equality etc, they seem a lot less sleazy with their young female peers.