To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

Or the alternative explanation is you don't actually read the views on here, just pop on to ask questions and drive away posters who aren't in the clique with insults.

Or the alternative explanation is you don't actually read the views on here, just pop on to ask questions and drive away posters who aren't in the clique with insults.

Quote one post that actually supports what you asserted

This

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies. They think that immigrants are causing women to be harassed across the UK. They don't agree that rape is effectively decriminalised.

I don't think feminists should avoid talking about anything. I think a position that only certain kinds of men, I.e. foreign ones, are rapists is not a feminist position. Yet its stated on here all the time as a fact and a reason GC voters should vote Conservative.

Have you got any receipts for that assertion? As I personally have never seen any poster say only foreign men are rapists, let alone 'all the time as a fact'.

I voted Conservative once, that doesn't make me right wing. KJK is happy to go on right wing shows, align herself with alt-right views, I find it objectionable. If she genuinely supported womens rights she would not want to be promoted by Jordan Peterson.

KJK can only appear on shows which will have her on. And in the main, it's only been places like GB news that will show anything even remotely GC. So what should she or any GC person who wants to share their views do?

You can disagree with me, my point however is what used to be primarily a radical feminist movement has grown to encompass some very right wing positions that I prefer not to engage with. That's my right.

GC beliefs don't encompass very right wing positions, it's just that GC feminists and some right wingers have some similar beliefs about sex and gender, though from different starting points/different reasons.That doesn't make GC right wing, any more than me agreeing with Donald Trump that water is wet makes me a Trump supporter.

OK
I can't answer your question but I just want to say this policy (two child benefit cap) makes me very sad. On a thread a few weeks ago was a low-income mum in an overcrowded council house, and she was pregnant with a surprise but wanted baby... so many comments were saying she should abort. And, practically, that might be the best thing. But it breaks my heart that we live in a society where a loving mum would have to abort a wanted baby because she can't afford it. And most of my friends and family call me conservative (small c). Domestic birth rates are so low in this country, we should celebrate mums and babies.

^Gods this is awful. Every Western country goes on about the declining birth rate but does nothing to help mothers!
Immigration is a huge expense...maybe less of that and a big allowance for those mothers who want a big family.^

Domestic birth rates are way under replacement level: without substantial and increasing immigration we are going to be such an aging society our health services (and other services) will be crippled and there will be widespread health catastrophe. Within a generation or two. I'm not exaggerating if you look at the stats.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4851419-rape-clause-row-as-keir-starmer-says-labour-will-not-scrap-two-child-benefit-cap

Thread about Cates:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4865798-britains-very-own-battle-for-births

Quotes from article:
“There is one critical outcome that liberal individualism has completely failed to deliver and that is babies,” one of the rising stars of the Tory party, MP Miriam Cates, told the National Conservatism conference in May.

Cates also objects to government plans to expand free childcare, arguing that instead there should be tax reform to persuade mothers to stay at home.

Miriam Cates is not a feminist, despite being GC, yet we all have to think she's great and vote for her because she says women have vaginas.

Well yes, if you want women to go back to a life where their value is through having babies and staying at home, vaginas are going to be important.

Read the Braverman thread. Plenty of it on there, although some of the more egregious examples have been deleted.

I mean really. All i was saying is I agreed with another poster who has moved away from GC sites/twitter because of the right wing views that come with it. That's my experience too.

And you are all kind of proving my point by getting so outraged at my opinion and insisting I prove every last statement.

Thread about Cates:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4865798-britains-very-own-battle-for-births

What posts on there say this ...

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4851419-rape-clause-row-as-keir-starmer-says-labour-will-not-scrap-two-child-benefit-cap

What posts on this thread do you think are right wing? I don't even know what point you're trying to prove here

I quoted them
Now I'm not talking to you any more because you are just being ridiculously goady.

I wasn't saying they were right wing, I was saying there are posters supporting Cates views about babies. That you told me didn't exist

I don’t think people are outraged. Just noticing the claims don’t stack up

I quoted them

All I can see are quotes from the article, rather than quotes from MN posters supporting this

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies.

I wasn't saying they were right wing

You did say they were right wing, just a page back. This is your full quote.

Because when you ask about other things related to feminism these posters take a right wing view

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies. They think that immigrants are causing women to be harassed across the UK. They don't agree that rape is effectively decriminalised.

It took me ages to find the meme I was looking for to illustrate my previous post. GC beliefs and religious/right wing beliefs have overlap in some areas (as, you will notice, do gender believers and the religious right); but they are not the same.

I don't believe that GC feminism has become right wing, but that some ideas in GC feminism have a limited overlap with some conservative/Christian ideas. Couple that with the fact that only right leaning political figures (with very few notable exceptions) and right leaning media platforms will publicly come anywhere near GC people/beliefs, and I can see how one might think GC=right wing. But it really doesn't stack up. It's simply that so-called liberal or left wing parties, people and platforms have utterly disavowed even the mildest of GC thought, whether through genuine belief, lack of critical thinking or fear of cancellation who can say.

I don't think GC = right wing and I don't think i said I did
I think what were previously places for radical feminists have been attracting more right wing posters and its changed the nature of the conversation.

Also that KJK is not a feminist

Left wing parties are also becoming more accepting of the debate. Previously no party would allow it, as I demonstrated up thread.

I think it is much less risky for the Conservatives to adopt an openly GC position, purely because as your diagram shows, traditional right wing voters also have that view.

I think the Conservatives know that and are trying to make it a wedge issue that damages everyone.

The TRAs make it an issue that damages women and children

The left isn’t great at acknowledging that as it’s generally captured

You have voted Conservative, and you're on here berating other (straw) women for being 'far right'?!

Good grief.

Who am I berating?

I don't like far right views, no. And it makes no odds to me if the person who holds them is male or female. If I hear views that I think are racist or anti-feminist then I am going to say that.

Your response also encapsulates what I mean about the board changing. You are either implying I'm a misogynist (which is actually hilarious as I'm a mid-forties strident feminist woman) or you think womens views are not to be challenged on here.

Lots of individual women hold views that are damaging to women-as-a-class. I don't think those views become less damaging just because they are women. And I find it odd to see them on here.

This used to be a place of debate, not groupthink.

But you're just firing out a load of vague smears and nonsense. Never backing a single assertion up with anything.

YABU. This has been brewing for over a decade, and it's global. If anything the Tories are late to the party.

I think I've backed my position a lot more than you've backed yours

Like, you say KJK used to be a Labour member. Where's your evidence?

Its not smearing anyone to point out this board is more right wing and less "feminist" (as in political feminist) than it used to be.

Why do you think I (a woman) can't question other women posting on here? Because you don't recognise my UN? Because you think I'm a "lefty" and therefore woke? Or because me questioning the right wing views on here makes you defensive?

You've previously voted Tory; I certainly don't think you're 'lefty'.