To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

'There's a lot of GC people saying they will vote Conservative because of right wing populists like Braverman and Badenoch. That scares me.'

'they tend to have a load of other associated unpleasant views or think weird things, like Suella Braverman deserves voting for because she's not woke.'

'I voted Conservative once, that doesn't make me right wing'

Why does it 'scare you' if other women say they will vote Conservative, when you have done so yourself? Do you really think this is a coherent and reasonable stance?

I'm on this site a fair bit Adam Ryan and haven't seen all these posters saying only foreign men are rapists. I'm also surprised that you think right wing = suspicious of foreigners/ racists and then hold up Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch as examples of evil right wingers clearly not noticing the major flaw in your argument. I think both politicians are getting on with doing what they were elected to do. They get a lot of flack for just getting on with the priorities they are given, if female Labour or Lib Dem MPs were getting the same sort of abuse for just carrying out party priorities there would be an uproar.

Where are these "other" GC sites?

Asking because I cant find them.

Seriously are we back to

Right wing = Evil
Left Wing = All that is good in the world.

I think we're at - when some people vote Conservative it's fine.

When other people say they may vote Conservative it's 'scary'.

Oh good so I’m ok then.

God knows, Jay, sorry! I think it depends if you identify as one of the Good People.

I try.

Well that's the same argument as the one arabella was making. Just because Badenoch and Braverman are black and brown, that doesn't mean they can't have far right, even racist views.
And no, they aren't "enacting the policies they were given". They are in charge. They are creating the policies.
I think its disgusting and bordering on fascist to imply that Pakistani grooming gangs are the cause of a lot of CSA in this country. Attributing harm to particular groups and creating a fear of an outsider and threat to tradition is a hallmark of fascist regimes.
I think its very damaging to say there is no such thing as institutional racism, and to make an "anti woke" agenda one of your priorities. That has the potential to remove lots of legal protections that women fought hard for. Removing the EA would do women and other disadvantaged groups a lot more harm than good.
I think undermining our courts and legal systems as "lefty lawyers blocking the government" is incredibly stupid and potentially removing one of the main balances we have from stopping a Government going rogue.

That's some examples of what I find scary. I definitely don't agree left = good, right bad, I'm a centrist as I said upthread so can go either way.

I think this habit of some GC posters to get so defensive and start flinging insults when their sheros in the Conservative party betrays that there is no good reason really to support them, other than they like the far right populism.

It is like Brexit, in that certain people don't like their views to be analysed.

First MN, or FWR in particular, was being overrun with Conservatives. Now it's fascists?!

You obviously think your views are right and virtuous and everyone who thinks differently is wrong and a far right fascist and your definition of a far right fascist seems to be people who disagree with you. Stick in your black and white world if it makes you happy.

There are some folk you meet in life who you just don’t like.

I don't think I'm virtuous at all. I don't vote based on what makes me feel good aboyt myself/virtuous. That would be weird. I take my vote quite seriously as a right women died for me to have. I vote for what I think will be best for society and what aligns most closely with my beliefs.

And I think "I'm voting conservative- they know what a woman is" is a figleaf for more base reasons for voting. Like "I'm voting leave - we need sovereignty". I think the actual reasons for most people are based on what directly benefits them or some less noble reason (like they think the country is "full"). To say that makes them ashamed so it's easier to pretend it's for some social good.

I wish people would just own their choice, rather than insult people. I actually think the polls at the moment show that centre right/traditional conservatives are also turned off by the current lurch to the right. I'm not unusual by finding it repugnant.

I was talking about some members of the government, clearly. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Second guessing other people’s reasons for their votes is presumptuous.

You don’t have it right here.

And what were your reasons for voting Conservative?

Well I think the good of the country is for women to be legally recognised and children protected from making irreversible decisions. If you can't have sex drink drive or vote how can you make decisions that will affect future sexual and cognitive functions?

And I think "I'm voting conservative- they know what a woman is" is a figleaf for more base reasons for voting. Like "I'm voting leave - we need sovereignty". I think the actual reasons for most people are based on what directly benefits them or some less noble reason (like they think the country is "full"). To say that makes them ashamed so it's easier to pretend it's for some social good.

You are staggeringly arrogant. Do you think you are the only noble voter? JFC I think you would have a little more humility if life had ever been a real struggle for you. If you're having difficulty understanding why people don't vote according to your assessment of the country's priorities then might a suggest reading a little Rob Henderson. I think he was the man who coined the phrase luxury beliefs.

You said it with more energy than I could bother with

Sometimes posters on here really don’t move on from arrogance. It’s strange but gets stale

People keep saying this too. You don't know me. Having values is nothing to do with privilege/humility and that's a pretty insulting thing to say.
You can try to dismiss an opposing point of view as "arrogant", "no humility" or whatever but ultimately that is not a debate.
People can vote how they like. That's totally irrelevant to the fact the Tories keep trying to froth up the electorate to win votes, with no intention of actually doing anything.
They have a huge majority. They could make "woman = adult human female" law. They don't. So why use that as a vote decider? Why is that any more likely to happen if they win the next election?

It's just bollocks. So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

This is just not right. You don’t get to sum up other people’s votes that way.

Look at your own priorities and let others do the same.

I was 18, bought up by a very conservative family, believed the "Labour will bankrupt the country" shtick. It was 1997.
Then we had the best period of my adult life under Blair/Brown. I voted lib dem (in fact was a member) and hated Blair. Loved Kennedy then Clegg. I even quite liked Cameron and May.
I said I would never vote Labour after Iraq. But the fact is the best time of my life was under the Labour government. The Tories have fucked the country in their pursuit of power. Brexit was a stupid gamble by Cameron to see off UKIP. Austerity chickens are coming home to roost. The party was led by a liar who kicked out the sensible MPs and now we have a bunch of far right weirdos in charge.
The monster raving loony party would do better than what we have. Yet "the Conservatives know what a woman is"

And do you know what? I'm not the one out of kilter with the majority. I know women have vaginas and still won't vote Conservative. Looking forward to the country getting rid of this bunch of idiots, and a more sensible gender debate so we can get back to feminist debate, not arguments about wokeness

Stop quoting me out of context. See first line.
People can vote how they like. That's totally irrelevant to the fact the Tories keep trying to froth up the electorate to win votes, with no intention of actually doing anything. They have a huge majority. They could make "woman = adult human female" law. They don't. So why use that as a vote decider? Why is that any more likely to happen if they win the next election?

Agree. I raise a brow when I see frothing posts about trans, gender, all the 'pro-laws' and dubious sex education in schools - all happening under Tory rule - and I know the frothers are Tory voters. A right-wing MP/in the limelight bod only has to say something (supposedly but not really, just vote and popularity chasing) agreeing with their views and theyre tripping over themselves to applaud said person. They care more about being right wing than anything else and I don't take them seriously at all. Divide and rule is working very well for the Tories - they know which buttons to press - so clearly they'll continue.