To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about

1. Sex education and
2. Gender and trans issues.

They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools.

What does everyone think?

I know it's not organised.
But I can see how hanging around GC.spaces online.(like this board) might put some people off. Posters can be very right wing and enthusiastic about some pretty unpleasant posters if they say "woman = adult human female"

I used to call myself "gender critical" but I'm less likely to now because of the association with right wing non feminists e.g. Kellie Jay Keen.

I'm more likely to say I'm a radical feminist and explain what that means (that women are oppressed on the basis of biology).

What utter nonsense.

KJK is an ex Labour party member. She is not 'right wing'. Most of the women in FWR are left of centre.

If you follow right wing GC people you get exposed to all manner of views that I find rereprehensible. For example, there's quite a lot of anti-immgrant islamophobia and mentions of coordinated rapes of women by Muslim men.

There's a lot of GC people saying they will vote Conservative because of right wing populists like Braverman and Badenoch. That scares me.

There's GC people posting YouTube videos of Jordan Peterson. The man who believes in enforced marriage to stop men being incels.

Theres very little feminist debates going on, besides jumping down peoples throats if they dont enthusiastically agree with "woman = adult human female, in all circumstances" and i dont see it too far different to the old TRA " trans women ARE women, no debate". Which makes me sad.

So I don't follow GC sites/people as much as I used to, including here. I assumed that's what PP was trying to say.

Are there many left wing GC sites or media you follow?

Which left wing outlets do you think covers it well from a pro woman stance?

What do you mean 'follow'? Are you talking about Twitter?

arabella I've been here since KJK used to post as Posie Parker. She never identified as feminist and I've never seen an indication she is left wing. I thought she was quite proudly not a feminist in fact.
She's done great things for the GC cause but my views don't align with hers and because I was around when she used to post I find some of the way she is held up as some sort of icon quite strange

'mentions of coordinated rapes of women by Muslim men.' - is this something you think feminists should avoid talking about?

She was a member of the Labour party. If that makes her 'right wing' then whatever.

Posters can be very right wing

Can you give examples of what you see on here that backs that up?

I don't think feminists should avoid talking about anything. I think a position that only certain kinds of men, I.e. foreign ones, are rapists is not a feminist position. Yet its stated on here all the time as a fact and a reason GC voters should vote Conservative.

I voted Conservative once, that doesn't make me right wing. KJK is happy to go on right wing shows, align herself with alt-right views, I find it objectionable. If she genuinely supported womens rights she would not want to be promoted by Jordan Peterson.

You can disagree with me, my point however is what used to be primarily a radical feminist movement has grown to encompass some very right wing positions that I prefer not to engage with. That's my right.

"I'm voting conservative because they know what a woman is", on further questioning these posters usually divert into a widescale questioning of Labour/the left, how they can't be trusted and only the conservatives can. Its very clear that for many posters the "they know what a woman is" is providing a convenient fig leaf for the shy tory.

It's very reductive. And fails to note the pivotal role the conservatives played in where we are today.

"I'm voting conservative because they know what a woman is"

But you just said you've voted conservative and that didn't make you right wing. So why would it make these posters? 🤔

That ‘shy Tory’ thing is very stale by now. There’s no ‘fig leaf’

But your left wing politics and media is not strong on being pro women

Can you link your left wing GC material?

Why is there such an absence of it?

Because when you ask about other things related to feminism these posters take a right wing view
I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies. They think that immigrants are causing women to be harassed across the UK. They don't agree that rape is effectively decriminalised.
As I said upthread, many posters are on FWR because the GC position often overlaps with their religious/conservative/right wing views and so the board is not really about feminism any more. And neither are a lot of other GC sites.

Go and do your own googling.

I'm a centrist, my "label" would be radical feminist not left or right. I find far left TRA style identity politics equally as repugnant as far right "anti-woke" politics.

When it comes to an election I'll vote for who has the policies that are best for the majority of the UK (e.g low to middle earning working people) If they have something credible to say about womens rights then extra brownie points.

Saying "women have vaginas" is a statement of fact and is not relevant to my voting intention tbh.

I don't know why posters get so intent on asking questions but not answering them

Go and do your own googling.

Well that’s a testy response 😬

It shouldn’t be that hard if you feel GC left covers pro women stance well. You say you don’t post here much or engage with right wing GC things. So that means you’re a bit depleted for left wing versions as it’s not very prevalent.

I’ve never seen anyone respond to this presumably because they can’t. It shows the flaw for the left.

That absence is a big problem.

Because when you ask about other things related to feminism these posters take a right wing view

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies. They think that immigrants are causing women to be harassed across the UK. They don't agree that rape is effectively decriminalised.

I have never seen anything remotely like this. Can you post your evidence?

Here's some FWR links about Posie, none posted by me and in fact I haven't read all of them
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4586847-and-this-is-exactly-why-posie-parker-is-a-liability

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4864363-posie-parker-on-jordan-peterson

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4640337-sarah-ditum-on-posie-parker

I'm not unusual among feminists for not thinking she is all that

On Posie imo people get a bit too hooked into her position and her as a personality

She does well to raise issues, she gets cut through in ways others don’t

She’s not someone I have to align with fully or follow even to be GC

I’m glad she’s fighting the fight though. We need all we can

Wheres the evidence for what you posted above?

Again, I'm sure you are more than capable of doing your own googling
But as you asked so nicely (not)
She is amazing. I thought JT did a pretty good job of remaining balanced and fair in that. Cates is such an ‘answer to my prayers’ - mum, biology teacher, MP, tenacious, articulate, poised and totally committed to stopping this social disease… I (an agnostic) have actually wondered if there could be a divine hand in her role in all this! 😂...Everything she writes or says packs a punch

For me, there are only two candidates who can do anything with the moribund Tories, Cates and Badenoch. Braverman is a busted flush, and the likes of Jonny Mercer, Rory Stewart, Jeremy Hunt etc would only continue the ethic-less direction of modern Conservatism.

I'm afraid she's now (if she wasn't already) a target for the left.....Cultural Marxist usage, her aversion to home abortion pills, her enthusiasm to reduce the abortion time limit, her inability to state whether she'd have supported gay marriage, her seeming over emphasis on mothers given options other than only work, her zero tolerance on trans in schools and highlighting safeguarding issues thereof, will be grist to the mill to the identarian grievance monger

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4837933-janice-turner-interview-with-miriam-cates

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies.

None of what you you just posted backs that up, never mind your other claims

My point is there are a lot of right wing posters claiming they are GC for reasons other than womens rights. I don't have to go trawling round for individual posts in response to your gotchas. It is patently obvious that there are a significant number who love Tory populism

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4588712-kemi-badenoch-knows-what-a-woman-is

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4776977-suella-braverman-vows-to-stamp-out-grooming-gangs-behind-organised-child-sex-abuse?page=1

I agree with OP that the tories think there are votes to be won by making trans politics a wedge issue. Its working as you can see from the cheerleading

The problem for the left is the absence of being pro women at all in the public space. Left media and politics are pretty much captured and pro TRA

Those annoyed with ‘the right’ as they see it do still do post here despite saying FWR puts them off and they find it hard to link anything left and pro women in the media or politics

That GC absence is a huge issue

My point is there are a lot of right wing posters claiming they are GC for reasons other than womens rights. I don't have to go trawling round for individual posts in response to your gotchas.

Im simply asking you to provide evidence for your claims, which you clearly are unable to do.

People agreeing with Kemi or Miriam on gender issues is not the same as this.

I.e. they agree with Miriam Cates that women should be encouraged to stay home and have babies. They think that immigrants are causing women to be harassed across the UK. They don't agree that rape is effectively decriminalised.

I'm sure you know that. The alternative explanation is that you're not very bright and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on that.