Page 21 | To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 2023-08-29T20:15:30+00:00

The tories have totally messed up the country recently I think that people who did or didn't vote for them can see they are doing an awful job and they have no reasonable expectation of winning next general election..... EXCEPT now the Tory press has created this total obsession about 1. Sex education and 2. Gender and trans issues. They are painting them selves as the only party that will save us from the wokes who want to identify as a dog or teach 12 year olds how to have anal sex... this is what the Tory tabloids are claiming is happening in schools. What does everyone think?

StefanosHill · 10/09/2023 00:12

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:10

Stop quoting me out of context. See first line.
People can vote how they like. That's totally irrelevant to the fact the Tories keep trying to froth up the electorate to win votes, with no intention of actually doing anything. They have a huge majority. They could make "woman = adult human female" law. They don't. So why use that as a vote decider? Why is that any more likely to happen if they win the next election?

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You are writing the words. That last line is there.

People are not pretending. Just focus on your own vote. We all get one each.

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:13

Just awaiting the "you are why people get entrenched views as you make them feel stupid" then I can call bingo.

Take some fucking ownership. You want to vote conservative, you want to be right wing. So have the courage of your convictions and say why. A load of "Labour won't say women have cervixes" doesn't wash. There are plenty of other options. You choose Conservative.

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:16

So stefanos what is it that attracts you to voting conservative?

StefanosHill · 10/09/2023 00:16

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:13

Just awaiting the "you are why people get entrenched views as you make them feel stupid" then I can call bingo.

Take some fucking ownership. You want to vote conservative, you want to be right wing. So have the courage of your convictions and say why. A load of "Labour won't say women have cervixes" doesn't wash. There are plenty of other options. You choose Conservative.

So you’re now pre-writing posts for other people. Don’t worry you can write much to make me feel ‘stupid’

You are getting wound up on your own steam here.

We get a vote each, we have different views. You’ll just have to deal with that.

You do sound incandescent though. It’s a vote and we all get to decide.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 10/09/2023 00:17

Hello Mrs Merton.

StefanosHill · 10/09/2023 00:18

Tbh I have zero desire to engage on any level beyond a suggestion to tone down the vote ordering

You don’t get yours plus everyone else’s.

DojaPhat · 10/09/2023 00:18

The gender-wars has been nothing short of a godsend for entire demographics of women.

On a separate note I too dislike when women like Suella and Kemi are criticised for not following the supposed 'correct' narrative owing to their heritages. Their views are in no way at odds with the fact that they're women of colour and in many respects align with their respective histories. If people thought Theresa may was tarnished as a result of her hostile environment policy that is merely a walk in the park for Suella.

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:26

StefanosHill · 10/09/2023 00:18

Tbh I have zero desire to engage on any level beyond a suggestion to tone down the vote ordering

You don’t get yours plus everyone else’s.

OK great. Make a load of assertions with nothing to back it up. I assume because there is nothing there.
Boring. Not a debate.

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:27

The gender-wars has been nothing short of a godsend for entire demographics of women.
What do you mean when you say this?

StefanosHill · 10/09/2023 00:31

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:26

OK great. Make a load of assertions with nothing to back it up. I assume because there is nothing there.
Boring. Not a debate.

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Well I don’t have to answer to you on demand. You’re far too wound up for any kind of debate

As long as you quit with telling people they are ‘pretending’ and think your priorities matter that much for someone else’s vote.

If you can actually reflect on how arrogant that is then great.

You vote how you want and others will too.

Rudderneck · 10/09/2023 02:14

If it's a distracting culture war just whipped up to benefit the Tories, the implication seems to be that it would be better if the press didn't talk about the things that are happening around the law, kids medical issues, authoritarianism on the left, and women's issues, and that no party addressed them eithe.

I can't somehow see that as better, on the contrary, it seems a lot worse.

The Tories are talking about this because a lot of people are worried about it, and it differentiates them from the other parties.

I am sure they are also glad to have an issue that takes the heat off of other elements of their performance, and makes the other parties look like imbeciles. But talking about things that concern people is actually what they are supposed to be doing.

In any case, it's not like Labour and the Lib Dems haven't tried to make hay with these exact same issues, used them cynically, and tried to use them as a kind of bribe for a certain set of their voters. If they hadn't the Tories wouldn't have had nearly as much scope to use them either.

The idea that people aren't really concerned with bondage in books for 5
6 year olds, or medical transition of teens , and their concern is manufactured, is a bit crazy to me

FOJN · 10/09/2023 06:50

AdamRyan · 09/09/2023 23:59

People keep saying this too. You don't know me. Having values is nothing to do with privilege/humility and that's a pretty insulting thing to say.
You can try to dismiss an opposing point of view as "arrogant", "no humility" or whatever but ultimately that is not a debate.
People can vote how they like. That's totally irrelevant to the fact the Tories keep trying to froth up the electorate to win votes, with no intention of actually doing anything.
They have a huge majority. They could make "woman = adult human female" law. They don't. So why use that as a vote decider? Why is that any more likely to happen if they win the next election?

It's just bollocks. So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

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Who are you exactly that I would have to "pretend" about anything to appease/impress you? IDGAF

The Tories have certainly got some sections of society in a froth; perhaps it's a former Tory voter thing?

No I don't know you and for that I can be grateful.

nothingcomestonothing · 10/09/2023 08:18

You: People keep saying this too. You don't know me.. You can try to dismiss an opposing point of view as "arrogant", "no humility" or whatever but ultimately that is not a debate.

Also you: So stop pretending that's why you want to vote for them.

So just to be clear, other posters shouldn't assume your views or motives, but you are allowed to assume theirs?

I am not a Tory. I (unlike you) have never voted Tory, and I have voted in every election available to me in the last 31 years. I have no need of a 'figleaf' to cover motivations I don't have. I want to vote for a party that respects women and will protect women's rights. There aren't any. So I will have to choose the least worst of what's on offer.

Maybe have a look at the arrogance of telling women what they think and why.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 10/09/2023 08:18

In America there is starting to be a slo-o-o-w realisation that's possible to be gender critical and not be rightwing. But it's very slow. Liberal and leftwing women are afraid that even to have GC views makes them rightwing and they're also afraid to express GC views because the US liberal/progressive/left has rejected GC views and will insist that GC women support the right even if they have decades of leftwing, feminist and pro-gay activisim behind them. The US is a long way behind the UK on this. That's partly because reproductive rights are tied together with medical transition in the US in a way they're not in UK.

So it's not that GC women are necessarily rightwing or socially conservative or are becoming more rightwing or seocially conservative. Instead the liberal left has refused to recognise the possibiity of GC arguments from a liberal and leftwing point of view.

Winnading · 10/09/2023 16:59

AdamRyan · 09/09/2023 23:04

I don't think I'm virtuous at all. I don't vote based on what makes me feel good aboyt myself/virtuous. That would be weird. I take my vote quite seriously as a right women died for me to have. I vote for what I think will be best for society and what aligns most closely with my beliefs.

And I think "I'm voting conservative- they know what a woman is" is a figleaf for more base reasons for voting. Like "I'm voting leave - we need sovereignty". I think the actual reasons for most people are based on what directly benefits them or some less noble reason (like they think the country is "full"). To say that makes them ashamed so it's easier to pretend it's for some social good.

I wish people would just own their choice, rather than insult people. I actually think the polls at the moment show that centre right/traditional conservatives are also turned off by the current lurch to the right. I'm not unusual by finding it repugnant.

You vote for the good of the people and want a medal, that's evident.

If you believe a woman is anyone who says they are one then fine, good for you. If you think thats a figleaf, oh well. You think whatever you want, most of us here dont have to say why we will vote one way v the other way. We do discuss it, but you dont have to read the words.

Here on t'internet we dont owe you an explanation of why we vote whichever way, your opinion is just that and nothing to do with us. If you think there is a lurch to vote right wing, maybe think on why? Instead of assuming we owe you an explanation, maybe take it up with the politicians. Why are they not listening to women.

Winnading · 10/09/2023 17:04

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:08

And do you know what? I'm not the one out of kilter with the majority. I know women have vaginas and still won't vote Conservative. Looking forward to the country getting rid of this bunch of idiots, and a more sensible gender debate so we can get back to feminist debate, not arguments about wokeness

I dont want a gender debate. I want the GRA abolished.

Again, you go do your vote your way. I'll do it mine, that is democracy.

Winnading · 10/09/2023 17:08

AdamRyan · 10/09/2023 00:13

Just awaiting the "you are why people get entrenched views as you make them feel stupid" then I can call bingo.

Take some fucking ownership. You want to vote conservative, you want to be right wing. So have the courage of your convictions and say why. A load of "Labour won't say women have cervixes" doesn't wash. There are plenty of other options. You choose Conservative.

In the very nicest way I can manage, are you ok?

HRTQueen · 10/09/2023 17:25

No the changes are a social change in the more progressive societies and other countries are seeing similar issues

what the Tories are doing is playing into the more extreme issues not the every day (which I personally still feel is necessary) and unfortunately Labour have not handled this well. The vast majority of voters are not interested in identity politics and view it as nonsense drivel but once again Labour shall ignore and not bother to address what doesn’t suit their party narrative. Why don’t Labour learn they are always the party that need to fight harder for voters

A photo of Starmer (looking confused) shall be printed over and over again informing voters this man doesn’t even know what a woman is. He should have backtracked he should of made a politics move you do not need to stay true to your principles all the time to win voters over

FlirtsWithRhinos · 10/09/2023 19:08

A photo of Starmer (looking confused) shall be printed over and over again informing voters this man doesn’t even know what a woman is.

I think it's worse than that. I think most voters believe he knows exactly what a woman is but for political reasons is declining to say.

The message that sends is that Labour will not acknowledge reality if it clashes with an intellectual position they have decided to hold.

For a party trying to prove they have the maturity to govern after the Corbyn years that's a very bad image for voters to get.

Boomboom22 · 10/09/2023 22:53

The problem is the left is so consumed with wanting to be seen to do the right thing they are willing to ignore reality. That's why noone trusts them with the economy. We need a new centre right offering really!

GreyHeron · 10/09/2023 23:01

Totally agree ✊

Cazziebo · 10/09/2023 23:05

Definitely not. Tories are hardly a feature in Scotland yet this is where TWAW and inappropriate sex education has the strongest grip. The hard of thinking fall into line and repeat the chants.

The scales fall when people see the consequences - Male bodied people in women's safe spaces, sport, women's awards. It's not party political.

maddening · 10/09/2023 23:08

Cazziebo · 10/09/2023 23:05

Definitely not. Tories are hardly a feature in Scotland yet this is where TWAW and inappropriate sex education has the strongest grip. The hard of thinking fall into line and repeat the chants.

The scales fall when people see the consequences - Male bodied people in women's safe spaces, sport, women's awards. It's not party political.

Agree- and look.at.Canada!

HRTQueen · 10/09/2023 23:26

FlirtsWithRhinos · 10/09/2023 19:08

A photo of Starmer (looking confused) shall be printed over and over again informing voters this man doesn’t even know what a woman is.

I think it's worse than that. I think most voters believe he knows exactly what a woman is but for political reasons is declining to say.

The message that sends is that Labour will not acknowledge reality if it clashes with an intellectual position they have decided to hold.

For a party trying to prove they have the maturity to govern after the Corbyn years that's a very bad image for voters to get.

I agree Flirts he absolutely knows and we know he knows but he isn’t going to admit this. he has dug a hole for himself which he could have got out of but he choose to appease a very small minority of people instead and once again Labour are led by ideology than practicality

ArabeIIaScott · 11/09/2023 09:55

Cazziebo · 10/09/2023 23:05

Definitely not. Tories are hardly a feature in Scotland yet this is where TWAW and inappropriate sex education has the strongest grip. The hard of thinking fall into line and repeat the chants.

The scales fall when people see the consequences - Male bodied people in women's safe spaces, sport, women's awards. It's not party political.

Tories in Scotland were the only party to try and resist the GRR madness. Labour were an embarrassment - repeatedly saying they'd address glaring safeguarding omissions and then watching helplessly as the mad SNP government swept it all through with no changes.