DH made comment about women driving. Has incensed me.

[Smsquared]

Just had lovely morning with DH and kids. Sat having a coffee and watching the local fruit vendors packing up. Few comments between us on what hard graft it looks like. Three adults (two men, one woman) packing things up into 2 vans. When they finish packing up the woman jumps into one and drives off and DH says ‘wow, the woman is driving one of the vans. This girl can’.
As we drive home he asks me what’s wrong and I tell him how that comment just stinks of the patriarchy and why is it even notable that a woman is driving a van in 2023. He says it’s just an observation as you don’t really see that. I feel adamant that it shouldn’t even be commented on as why wouldn’t / shouldn’t the woman be driving the van and doing just as many things as the two men and saying it in a sarky way implies that the woman shouldn’t be. He feels I’ve escalated this and it’s nothing to do with the patriarchy or women not having as many rights in the past. He’s a brilliant husband and father and respects me 100% but just venting here as I want to find a way to make him realise how ingrained his views are and how much they need to change. We have two boys who I intend to raise as feminist allies.

Did you miss the bit where I said I live rurally?
And <gasp> drive a van?

I'd say rural women might even be more likely to drive large vehicles/tow trailers/horse boxes etc. than city dwellers.

Mercedes Benz survey of their commercial van customers here. Shockingly, 43% were women.

https://www.mercedes-benz.co.uk/vans/en/insights/green-van-woman

Even back in 2012, AXA were reporting that a third of commercial van drivers were women.

https://fsd.servicemax.com/uk/2012/10/25/survey-a-third-of-commercial-van-drivers-are-women/

And another:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/features/the-rise-of-the-white-van-woman

Given the above articles, which replicate the same results time and time again, how on earth can anyone not be aware that women drive vans?

I think people are seeing vans, not noticing the sex of the driver (as they generally have no reason to), and are subconsciously assuming that the driver is male by default. This then translates to "I don't ever see women driving vans".

Is he generally narrow minded and stuck in the 1950s?

Maybe he was just trying to wind you up.

But anyone using the phrase ‘this girl can’, regardless of the context, is a twat.

It doesn't excuse casual sexism though, does it? It should be called out every single time.

My daughter drives a van and unloads deliveries. She is 5ft & a size 6-8. God knows how much shock she must cause during a working day.

Because as I said upthread no one is noticing or commenting on it as apparently, if you do point it out even in a positive way you are branded a sexist twat. So no one comments on it to their kids and kids go on growing up thinking the default van driver is a man.

It’s the cone of silence that is what is keeping these old gender stereotypes alive. Women have been doing these jobs for decades but no one sees it and we’re apparently not allowed to see it or say anything positive about it.

But the comment the DH made only makes sense if the speaker/listener assumes that the default van driver is a man.

Surely you want to teach children that women doing things is totally normal, rather than teaching them to be astonished that a woman can do something as mundane as drive a van?

Would you comment to a female surgeon/engineer "You go girl!", or say "This boy can!" to a male primary teacher or male ballet dancer? No. Because it's demeaning and patronising, and only serves to reinforce the stereotypes.

If no-one comments, and kids see female van drivers out and about in real life (which they will!), kids won't think that it's weird/unusual.

I wouldn't describe OP's DH's comment to be a positive one.

If it hadn’t been in a snarky tone, it would be a positive one.
Secondly OP and other posters are of the opinion this should never ever be commented on at all, not even in a positive way.

Well that clearly hasn’t worked has it? The not commenting on it hasn’t changed the stereotyping getting into kids brains. They still associate jobs with genders.

As DH said, he wasn’t astonished, it was an observation.
I don’t think it’s demeaning or patronising to point out things you observe so the children can see men and women both doing jobs.

Having seen what lots of children's mums are saying on this thread, I'm not remotely surprised that stereotypes are being perpetuated tbh.

One pp even said she'd comment if she saw a male nurse or male PA because its apparently so rare. Another pp stated that men drive vans because it's such a strenuous thing to do, and women would struggle physically. There are some seriously dated sexist stereotypes being perpetuated by mothers (and presumably fathers) in the UK.

Children will notice that a man doing the thing doesn't attract a comment, whereas a woman doing the thing does. And they will learn that its weird/unusual for a woman to do the thing.

It shouldn't be made into a big deal because it isn't a big deal that women drive vans or women are doctors or whatever it may be.

'this girl can' is just patronising.

I remember our teacher doing this with us in class one - what a shame it's not changed enough over the last 35 years. I remember I was a clever little shit and guessed the point she was making so was contrary doing my drawings!

She also had us list household jobs and then observe who did them in our own homes and why which, looking back, was quite a formative experience for me.

I had my own van for years - i miss it.

In Logistics only 1.2% of hgv drivers are women, I don't think it would be greatly different for all other types of larger vehicles.
Whether you like it or not it is far more common to see a man drive a van, lorry, bus ect than it is to see a woman....

Your husband was not unreasonable.

https://www.wildrecruitment.co.uk/blog/why-arent-there-more-female-hgv-drivers-112

I wonder how many women here wouldn't be happy with a male midwife or raise an eyebrow over a male childminder.

He wasn't talking about a LGV though was he? It was a van, and about a third of van drivers are women.

This is exactly what I was thinking. It’s the whole “you’re making too big a deal of it” that allows these micro aggressions to continue to be normalised - and let go - on a daily basis. I’m glad the OP’s husband is a generally decent guy but I’m also glad she wants her sons to grow up even a little bit better - and more self aware.

It is quite unusual to see women driving vans or hgvs.

Because they are usually terrible drivers

Sorry couldn’t resist 😂

Making a private observation to your family isn’t making it into a big deal?! Lol
It’s not like he was grabbing a megaphone and doing a public announcement and wanting to sing a “for she’s a jolly good fellow” with three cheers for the woman driver!

No. That’s not how it works I’m afraid. They notice the majority of men are doing x, and then they expect it’s going to be a man and so they often do not notice when it’s not a man unless it’s pointed out to them.

Back to my post on my DD and her being the only child to draw a female soldier…I’d picked her up at the school gate IN UNIFORM. Her classmates had SEEN a female soldier several times and no one had pointed it out. But when asked to draw “a soldier” my DD was the only child in her entire class not to draw a man as a soldier.

The mind often only sees what it expects to see.