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Original poster

DH made comment about women driving. Has incensed me.

213 replies

Smsquared · 25/08/2023 14:31

Just had lovely morning with DH and kids. Sat having a coffee and watching the local fruit vendors packing up. Few comments between us on what hard graft it looks like. Three adults (two men, one woman) packing things up into 2 vans. When they finish packing up the woman jumps into one and drives off and DH says ‘wow, the woman is driving one of the vans. This girl can’.
As we drive home he asks me what’s wrong and I tell him how that comment just stinks of the patriarchy and why is it even notable that a woman is driving a van in 2023. He says it’s just an observation as you don’t really see that. I feel adamant that it shouldn’t even be commented on as why wouldn’t / shouldn’t the woman be driving the van and doing just as many things as the two men and saying it in a sarky way implies that the woman shouldn’t be. He feels I’ve escalated this and it’s nothing to do with the patriarchy or women not having as many rights in the past. He’s a brilliant husband and father and respects me 100% but just venting here as I want to find a way to make him realise how ingrained his views are and how much they need to change. We have two boys who I intend to raise as feminist allies.

OP posts:
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7
Theoriginalmrscillianmurphy · 25/08/2023 17:03

A non event really.

Raise your two boys to be good people whom treat everyone with respect and you won't go wrong.

DontYouThreatenMeWithADeadFish · 25/08/2023 17:05

RoseyLentil · 25/08/2023 16:45

Ingrained bias. Unfortunately it's still very much in evidence as is illustrated by many comments on this thread.
I have had a hgv license since 2000, can also drive a forklift, a JCB and a team of heavy horses. My daily vehicle is my van.

Nobody on here or the OPs DH have suggested that women are incapable or driving vans or HGVs, more a case of pointing out that it is not that common. Things are changing of course, 30 years ago a woman HGV driver was unheard of. Its no different to observing a male primary school teacher, nurse or PA.

Trickedbyadoughnut · 25/08/2023 17:07

I agree with you, OP, as you say, it's not the first time he's made similar comments. This crap is insidious and there is plenty of evidence of that on this thread.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2023 17:07

more about the types of job they do

In this case, they were fruit vendors. So definitely the sort of job where you'd drive a van.
I wonder if the DH would have made the comment if there had not been 2 men as well as the woman? The OP says he's made comments like this before so perhaps he would have, and that's probably also why she's so annoyed this time.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2023 17:09

Its no different to observing a male primary school teacher, nurse or PA.

Yeah, or a dad being praised for just being a normal engaged parent rather than 'babysitting' his own kids?Hmm

Best to cut out the sexist crap all ways round.

BillaBongGirl · 25/08/2023 17:10

Three adults (two men, one woman) packing things up into 2 vans. When they finish packing up the woman jumps into one and drives off and DH says ‘wow, the woman is driving one of the vans. This girl can’.

Unless there is a big drip feed as to how he’s a sarcastic chauvinistic pig, I think this is a good observation to make to your sons? To point out to them when women are doing things that are pushing the gender stereotype boundaries even a little bit and he did it in a complimentary fashion. So your boys will now think hey, girls can drive vans too.

Its no different from how we still see “news” articles about women pilots grinning in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 even though it’s been eighty years since women were flying RAF mail and air ambulances during WWII. It’s not “news” but you can’t normalise the equality of women where there are still gender gaps without showing to both boys and girls that yes a girl can do this or that.

cushioncovers · 25/08/2023 17:10

Women can drive whatever they want afaic however it does seem to be the case that in a team of men and women it will be the men who drive. On its own its not a comment that I would be upset about. If face I would probably be quite surprised myself if the woman chose to drive.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2023 17:12

The OPs sons have eyes, they can presumably see for themselves that women can drive vans. Commenting on it makes it sound - well - commentworthy rather than actually completely normal.

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 17:14

There's no need to point out that it's uncommon though, especially if it's done in such an idiotic and patronising way that OP clearly sounds sick of. It's not even that uncommon!

You wouldn't "just comment" on the fact a black family was visiting a predominantly white rural village, would you? (As my MIL felt compelled to recently. Her eyes nearly fell out of her head).

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2023 17:16

cushioncovers · 25/08/2023 17:10

Women can drive whatever they want afaic however it does seem to be the case that in a team of men and women it will be the men who drive. On its own its not a comment that I would be upset about. If face I would probably be quite surprised myself if the woman chose to drive.

Yeah, but why is that? Men are statistically not better drivers than women.

BillaBongGirl · 25/08/2023 17:20

Except they may not notice? Unless they see it often?
My DDs Yr1 teacher did a sort of social experiment. She asked the DC to draw pictures of various people that she listed by job title:
Doctor
Nurse
Soldier
Builder
Lorry Driver
Teacher
Vicar
Model

She said that even though the children were 5, the results were depressingly stereotypical in terms of gendered drawings. BUT she was thrilled when it came to my DD as my DD was the only child to have drawn a female soldier!

(I was in the forces then, and we had a bit of a chuckle about that)

But my DD was just like the other 5yr olds for all the other professions. Even that young it was already engrained that a certain sex was associated with a certain profession.

BillaBongGirl · 25/08/2023 17:23

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 17:14

There's no need to point out that it's uncommon though, especially if it's done in such an idiotic and patronising way that OP clearly sounds sick of. It's not even that uncommon!

You wouldn't "just comment" on the fact a black family was visiting a predominantly white rural village, would you? (As my MIL felt compelled to recently. Her eyes nearly fell out of her head).

A Black family on a day trip to a rural village is not even remotely comparable to a comment expressing approval for gender stereotypes being challenged. Really shocked you would even think to compare the two.

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 17:24

It's the need to comment at all. These were normal events in either case, with no negative tone to the comments.

There is no need to comment. It just makes the commentator look ignorant.

bookworm44 · 25/08/2023 17:26

Porx · 25/08/2023 14:54

Isn't 'this girl can' meant to mean that he thinks it's a positive thing?

Not really when he appears to be surprised about it!!

Topseyt123 · 25/08/2023 17:27

How would he react if he boarded a plane to go on holiday and found it would have a woman pilot? That is getting much more common these days. Would he make ridiculous comments?

MrsJBaptiste · 25/08/2023 17:34

You're incensed @Smsquared ?

I honestly don't know how some people on here make it though the day... 🙄

Parky04 · 25/08/2023 17:36

Yeah, leave the sexist pig.

toomuchlaundry · 25/08/2023 17:42

He wasn’t criticising her driving though. Hopefully, when your sons are grown up it won’t be an unusual sight as it still is in some places. As a child I would never have seen a woman driving a lorry, bus etc.

BillaBongGirl · 25/08/2023 17:47

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 17:24

It's the need to comment at all. These were normal events in either case, with no negative tone to the comments.

There is no need to comment. It just makes the commentator look ignorant.

So the progress of women in closing the gender gap in various aspects of life is not to be commented on positively for our children? We are to be silent about it and make no comment?

It’s attitudes like this that I do wonder might be why many young women today literally haven’t a clue as to what life was like for women even one or two generations before them. They assume that what is “normal” today has been that way for far longer than it has.

Yeah, it may be normal now but it wasn’t in the very recent past and I think it’s still comment worthy when we see women who may not be pioneers but are making things normal. Are making what was unusual the every day. They deserve a “this girl can” or a “you go girl”.

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 17:56

So the progress of women in closing the gender gap in various aspects of life is not to be commented on positively for our children? We are to be silent about it and make no comment

This isn't remotely the scenario being described.

OP describes how he said it in a "sarky" way, and he has a history of making similar comments.

Why else would OP be angry?!

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 18:00

If someone said "You go girl" to me, when I have fixed the washing machine, driven a 400 mile journey in my works van, or countless other things that people think men 'usually' do, instead of women, I'd feel like punching them in the face TBH. So patronising, and smacks of their own ignorance about what happens NOW in the world.

MysteryBelle · 25/08/2023 18:05

He’s a brilliant husband and father and respects me 100%

I think you’ve been so steeped in leftism, not feminism, that you’ve got a hair trigger.

He said nothing wrong, patriarchal, misogynist, or offensive in his comment. Men are generally, not always but generally, stronger and bigger than women. Those two facts explain why men often take the lead, whether it is loading into vans or driving them, to be helpful, even now in a post patriarchal world. Your husband admired the woman taking the lead. So what? We women admire men when they take on historically female ‘work’. You are so immersed in a vindictive retributive mindset that it colors everything in your life.

By the way, who drove home, you or your husband? If it was your husband, why didn’t you drive? If you drove home, did your husband comment “wow, you’re driving”? Why or why not?

BillaBongGirl · 25/08/2023 18:05

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 17:56

So the progress of women in closing the gender gap in various aspects of life is not to be commented on positively for our children? We are to be silent about it and make no comment

This isn't remotely the scenario being described.

OP describes how he said it in a "sarky" way, and he has a history of making similar comments.

Why else would OP be angry?!

She angry on two counts. One she heard it as snarky and second she thinks that it should not be commented on at all:
”I feel adamant that it shouldn’t even be commented on as why wouldn’t / shouldn’t the woman be driving the van and doing just as many things as the two men and saying it in a sarky way implies that the woman shouldn’t be.”

The DH disagreed he said it in a snarky way and said it was just an observation.
“He says it’s just an observation as you don’t really see that.”

So I don’t know if he was snarky or not, so have set aside that for now as said unless she knows him to be a chauvinistic pig prone to sarcasm, then taken at face value the comment isn’t a bad comment and on principle I disagree that we should not comment on these sorts of things ever at all. That positive comments are positive reinforcement and celebration and should not only be tolerated but encouraged. That’s the crux of my opinion on this.

ThreeLittleDots · 25/08/2023 18:07

Yes, only the OP knows whether she is correct in saying in her 1st post that he has a history of making sarcastic comments about women.

MalcolmsMiddle · 25/08/2023 18:09

Non issue