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Original poster

Gross negligence? Knowingly placing an individual with TB on a barge intended for 500?

248 replies

Nevermay · 14/08/2023 00:01

or sending anyone onto the barge at all, when it was known the water supply was contaminated with legionnaires disease?

Gross negligence? Reckless endangerment?

Any individual who contributed to the situation, placing asylum seekers on the barge while knowing either that one had TB, or that the water supply was unsafe needs to be taken to court and charged, who ever they are.

surely?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
jcyclops · 14/08/2023 01:01

The individual with TB has been notified that he has been picked to transfer to the barge at some date in the future. The only person who knows he has TB is his doctor - who admits there is no way anybody else could know as nobody else has access to his medical records. The doctor is writing to the Home Office to inform them of his condition. The case may have highlighted procedures need tightening up, but the individual with TB is dangerous to others wherever he is housed.

Not one person with TB has knowingly been sent to the barge (and probably will not be in the future).

Dorset Council informed UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) of the presence of Legionella on the evening of Weds 9th. On the morning of Thurs 10th, a meeting including Home Office, UKHSA and Dorset Council stopped all transfers to the barge. A second meeting that afternoon decided to remove the 39 people already aboard and they all left on Friday.

Not one person has been knowingly sent to a barge with a legionella problem.

Incidentally, I wonder if ALL housing for migrants (hotels, barracks, flats etc.) is tested for legionella, and should every migrant arriving be quarantined until a full medical check is done and the results known?

LauderSyme · 14/08/2023 01:04

We all know that no one will
be held accountable for any aspect of this horrible, unethical migrant policy.

Begsthequestion · 14/08/2023 02:17

jcyclops · 14/08/2023 01:01

The individual with TB has been notified that he has been picked to transfer to the barge at some date in the future. The only person who knows he has TB is his doctor - who admits there is no way anybody else could know as nobody else has access to his medical records. The doctor is writing to the Home Office to inform them of his condition. The case may have highlighted procedures need tightening up, but the individual with TB is dangerous to others wherever he is housed.

Not one person with TB has knowingly been sent to the barge (and probably will not be in the future).

Dorset Council informed UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) of the presence of Legionella on the evening of Weds 9th. On the morning of Thurs 10th, a meeting including Home Office, UKHSA and Dorset Council stopped all transfers to the barge. A second meeting that afternoon decided to remove the 39 people already aboard and they all left on Friday.

Not one person has been knowingly sent to a barge with a legionella problem.

Incidentally, I wonder if ALL housing for migrants (hotels, barracks, flats etc.) is tested for legionella, and should every migrant arriving be quarantined until a full medical check is done and the results known?

Incidentally, I wonder if ALL housing for migrants (hotels, barracks, flats etc.) is tested for legionella, and should every migrant arriving be quarantined until a full medical check is done and the results known?

Landlords and other housing providers are legally obliged to assess their properties for risk of legionella and carry out the required tests https://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/legionella-landlords-responsibilities.htm

Re: health checks - it sounds like you're suggesting a mass quarantining of everyone at airports and ferry ports across the country? The government didn't do that during a global pandemic so I don't think they'll see the need now. Would definitely shrink the tourist industry of the UK if they did.

Legionnaires' disease - Legionella and landlords' responsibilities

The law is clear that if you are a landlord and rent out your property (or even a room within your own home) then you have legal responsibilities to ensure the health and safety of your tenant by keeping the property safe and free from health hazards....

https://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/legionella-landlords-responsibilities.htm

BadgerFacedCoo · 14/08/2023 05:55

It's ridiculous that this has happened. These boats have been used for rig workers for years, surely there's procedure to keep folks safe on them.

Why doesn't the government use the same methods. Legionnaires in the first week fgs.

TodayInahurry · 14/08/2023 05:59

They are arriving in huge numbers, people are protesting because they do not want hundreds of young men dumped on their peaceful areas. The French need to stop the boats leaving.

user1492757084 · 14/08/2023 06:06

Do the places from whence they embark hold such high standards? Is it a comparison of one danger to another of staying in danger/hunger etc?
Life is more risky for some people.

I agree that people are reckless, with no regard for the welfare of those who have not invited them.
For thousands of years humans have invaded the space of others and spread all over the globe.
History repeating.

CatherinedeBourgh · 14/08/2023 06:11

TodayInahurry · 14/08/2023 05:59

They are arriving in huge numbers, people are protesting because they do not want hundreds of young men dumped on their peaceful areas. The French need to stop the boats leaving.

Or maybe we could work with the French (and everyone else) to put in legal safe routes for immigration whereby we would take an equivalent and proportional share of migrants.

The fact that people don't want them there applies to every country receiving migrants. It applied to jews during ww2 too. Not a good basis for policy.

Climate change is devastating large parts of the world, causing humanitarian disasters. And don't give me the economic migration argument, people taking the huge risk to their lives in search of better jobs shows how desperate things are where they come from, enough to make it a humanitarian crisis in my view.

This problem isn't going to get better any time soon. The migrants will come, we cannot stop them. They have no choice. We can only choose to keep our humanity and accommodate them or become monsters.

Seymour5 · 14/08/2023 06:36

Europe is safe. Those with already established family in the UK should have an opportunity to apply, legally, to join them. But no one actually needs to seek asylum in the UK from France.

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 06:47

Seymour5 · 14/08/2023 06:36

Europe is safe. Those with already established family in the UK should have an opportunity to apply, legally, to join them. But no one actually needs to seek asylum in the UK from France.

It was established in a court case in 1999 and upheld on appeal to the HoLs that transit through another country does not negate someones right to apply for asylum in the UK.

You can read about it here.

https://levinslaw.co.uk/dinghies-in-the-channel-illegal-entrants-and-immigration-offences/

Dinghies in the Channel - Illegal entrants and immigration offences - Levins

There is much controversy in the media at the moment about migrants crossing the Channel in dinghies. In this article, we set out to explain some of the relevant law and clear up some misconceptions. This article is intended to be a general commentary...

https://levinslaw.co.uk/dinghies-in-the-channel-illegal-entrants-and-immigration-offences

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 06:48

TodayInahurry · 14/08/2023 05:59

They are arriving in huge numbers, people are protesting because they do not want hundreds of young men dumped on their peaceful areas. The French need to stop the boats leaving.

Less than 10% of the migrants to the UK in 2022 were asylum seekers.

Is it just asylum seekers that you wish to ban or all migrants? @TodayInahurry

Soontobe60 · 14/08/2023 06:55

Seymour5 · 14/08/2023 06:36

Europe is safe. Those with already established family in the UK should have an opportunity to apply, legally, to join them. But no one actually needs to seek asylum in the UK from France.

There are very good reasons why people want to reach the UK to seek asylum, the main one being that they already have family here. Another is that most already speak English so want to go to an English speaking country. Another is that they (mistakenly) believe that they will be made more welcome in the UK than other countries they are passing through.
Are people that stupid that they think refugees would risk drowning even though the countries they are passing through are safe? Clearly they are being told lies - smugglers make an absolute fortune by arranging the boat crossings, they get their customers by lying to them about how wonderful the Uk is.

Jennygosoftly · 14/08/2023 07:02

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 06:48

Less than 10% of the migrants to the UK in 2022 were asylum seekers.

Is it just asylum seekers that you wish to ban or all migrants? @TodayInahurry

Show quote history

If people are going to arrive with diseases then we need to close all the borders until it's sorted out.

This is what Labour wanted to do during the pandemic. but the Tories wouldn't let them.

If we get a Labour government in I can see them doing that, which is a good idea to keep us all safe.

OneTwoThreeShake · 14/08/2023 07:04

It's shameful, negligent behaviour. When covid was gripping, our government tested elderly patients before discharge from hospital and then discharged them before the results were received. And that turned out well, didn't it? These barges are a disgrace anyway, but boarding people onto them before having the all clear from testing is what we should expect from our moronic, complacent, don't give a shit government.

As for France stopping small boats, they no longer have any obligation as we voted for Brexit which has been implement. So thanks again.

And people have the right, under international law, to claim asylum anywhere. Stupid people choose to believe they have to stop in the first safe country they reach, but it absolutely isn't true. And rightly so.

OneTwoThreeShake · 14/08/2023 07:05

Nobody is going to close borders either. We are an island nation, reliant on movement of both goods and people. Closing our borders would decimate our economy.

User98866 · 14/08/2023 07:08

It’s absolutely gross negligence to send people onto a barge where they knew there was legionella. Jenrick and Braverman were looking at you. But what did anyone expect of those two? The whole thing is a brilliant farce anyway and makes the Tory’s look even more stupid when I thought that might not be possible. I expect the whole thing won’t even be used. Certainly not by 500. They might as well have thrown the money into Portland harbour.

floribunda18 · 14/08/2023 07:08

BadgerFacedCoo · 14/08/2023 05:55

It's ridiculous that this has happened. These boats have been used for rig workers for years, surely there's procedure to keep folks safe on them.

Why doesn't the government use the same methods. Legionnaires in the first week fgs.

  1. Because they are incompetent. 2. Because they are corrupt, giving contracts to mates with no experience. 3. Because they take short cuts to cut costs instead of doing things properly, and it ends up costing more - see 1.
Seymour5 · 14/08/2023 07:09

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 06:47

It was established in a court case in 1999 and upheld on appeal to the HoLs that transit through another country does not negate someones right to apply for asylum in the UK.

You can read about it here.

https://levinslaw.co.uk/dinghies-in-the-channel-illegal-entrants-and-immigration-offences/

Show quote history

I didn’t say they couldn’t, or it wasn’t legal. I know some migrants have genuine reasons for wanting to live in the UK. I said most didn’t need to, as France is a safe country, as is Germany, and other European countries. The whole ethos of asylum is safety, is it not?

Do most people really believe everyone who takes the trafficking route to the UK is a genuine refugee?

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 07:09

Jennygosoftly · 14/08/2023 07:02

If people are going to arrive with diseases then we need to close all the borders until it's sorted out.

This is what Labour wanted to do during the pandemic. but the Tories wouldn't let them.

If we get a Labour government in I can see them doing that, which is a good idea to keep us all safe.

Show quote history

I think that is an excellent idea, I never did like going abroad on holidays, and holidaying at home is much less environmentally damaging, and with the excellent weather this summer why would anyone need to go anywhere else?

Jennygosoftly · 14/08/2023 07:09

OneTwoThreeShake · 14/08/2023 07:05

Nobody is going to close borders either. We are an island nation, reliant on movement of both goods and people. Closing our borders would decimate our economy.

Well that's what Labour wanted to do during the pandemic, so I assumed they just meant the sea borders as as you say we still need to trade. We could trade by air. We import lots of goods that way anyway.

A lot of our earnings are via banking & insurance and they can be done via internet,

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 14/08/2023 07:11

So would you rather the TB carrier is in your local cafe?

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 07:11

OneTwoThreeShake · 14/08/2023 07:04

It's shameful, negligent behaviour. When covid was gripping, our government tested elderly patients before discharge from hospital and then discharged them before the results were received. And that turned out well, didn't it? These barges are a disgrace anyway, but boarding people onto them before having the all clear from testing is what we should expect from our moronic, complacent, don't give a shit government.

As for France stopping small boats, they no longer have any obligation as we voted for Brexit which has been implement. So thanks again.

And people have the right, under international law, to claim asylum anywhere. Stupid people choose to believe they have to stop in the first safe country they reach, but it absolutely isn't true. And rightly so.

I think you are missing the key reason for the government putting people onto the barge.

To generate headlines in particular newspapers. The government want to appear to be being tough on one particular desperate group of migrants, probably because they can't rouse a hate for the EU now that we have left.

Generating such hate is a distraction from addressing the reasons why so many in the UK are struggling to feed their families.

Original poster
Nevermay · 14/08/2023 07:13

jcyclops · 14/08/2023 01:01

The individual with TB has been notified that he has been picked to transfer to the barge at some date in the future. The only person who knows he has TB is his doctor - who admits there is no way anybody else could know as nobody else has access to his medical records. The doctor is writing to the Home Office to inform them of his condition. The case may have highlighted procedures need tightening up, but the individual with TB is dangerous to others wherever he is housed.

Not one person with TB has knowingly been sent to the barge (and probably will not be in the future).

Dorset Council informed UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) of the presence of Legionella on the evening of Weds 9th. On the morning of Thurs 10th, a meeting including Home Office, UKHSA and Dorset Council stopped all transfers to the barge. A second meeting that afternoon decided to remove the 39 people already aboard and they all left on Friday.

Not one person has been knowingly sent to a barge with a legionella problem.

Incidentally, I wonder if ALL housing for migrants (hotels, barracks, flats etc.) is tested for legionella, and should every migrant arriving be quarantined until a full medical check is done and the results known?

This is NOT how TB is handled, it is a notifiable disease, it is a matter of public record and the individual concerned is isolated, and everyone who has come into contact with them is informed and tested.

The individual is NOT then a threat t anyone else and the disease is contained.

Somebody somewhere behind the scenes made a decision to do things differently in this case.

Who?

They are a dangerous criminal and need to be identified and found

Anyone responsible for a water supply is responsible for keeping it free of legionella - ie employers, landlords, etc, which involves minimising risks, and regular testing.

In this case, a positive test was ignored.

Who knew? Why did they not act?

Again, this was clearly a deliberate decision, and clearly criminal.

These people need to be identified and charged.

OP posts:
Jennygosoftly · 14/08/2023 07:14

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 07:09

I think that is an excellent idea, I never did like going abroad on holidays, and holidaying at home is much less environmentally damaging, and with the excellent weather this summer why would anyone need to go anywhere else?

Show quote history

I'm glad you agree with me (the weather is baking here BTW and we are even heading for a water shortage)

People can stay at home and holiday in UK and support our economy here instead of Benidorm.

jgw1 · 14/08/2023 07:14

Seymour5 · 14/08/2023 07:09

I didn’t say they couldn’t, or it wasn’t legal. I know some migrants have genuine reasons for wanting to live in the UK. I said most didn’t need to, as France is a safe country, as is Germany, and other European countries. The whole ethos of asylum is safety, is it not?

Do most people really believe everyone who takes the trafficking route to the UK is a genuine refugee?

Show quote history

In the year to March 2023 74% of initial asylum decisions were to grant protection. The number of asylum seekers who were not granted asylum in 2022 is smaller than the size of the largest UK village.