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Original poster

To think most people do not 'obsess' over why a woman is childfree?

264 replies

Eastie77Returns · 13/08/2023 17:21

I know several women in their late 30s/early 40s who do not have children. I know one is not childfree by choice (close friend) but have no idea about the others apart from two who have actively chosen to share that they have never wanted kids. I do not spend any time at all wondering why the others do not have children. I assume they don't want them or, as is sadly the case of my friend, are unable to but it isn't something I dwell on or speculate about.

I've read multiple columnists in newspapers and articles in magazines in which child free women declare that the public at large, and mothers in particular, are 'obsessesed' with women who do not have children and it's exhausting having to constantly explain why you do not have any etc. They are fed up with the general assumption that they are selfish, career-mad, horrible child haters and this sentiment mostly comes from women who have kids. I have DC as do most of my friends. In my 10 years as a parent I have never had a conversation with any of them about 'selfish' childless women. Most of us completely understand why someone would prefer not to have kids!

I might be alone in thinking this but I honestly don't think most people really care about a woman's childbearing status. Obviously there are many ridiculous individuals who think it's ok to question a woman's choice and trott out BS like "you've never known true love/what tiredness really is until...." but I honestly think they are in the minority and the majority of mothers do not really care. Or am I being naive? My friends who are childfree by choice tell me they have occasionally been asked if they have kids but with rare exceptions have not been asked why not or any other follow up questions.

OP posts:
PinkCherryBlossoms · 13/08/2023 19:22

MiddleParking · 13/08/2023 17:35

I think most people significantly overestimate other people’s interest in them.

Very true!

In respect of DC, a person who doesn't have any either didn't want them, or did want them but couldn't have them. Or somewhere in the middle I guess, but those are the only explanations. It's not that complicated. Not having DC is common enough to be unremarkable, so really it'd depend whether the woman herself thought it significant enough for me to be aware of her view.

Inmybirthdaysuit · 13/08/2023 19:25

Everytime some one insists that having children made them 'less selfish' or being at home with your children is 'the most important job you will ever do' the implication is clear.

See I don't think that all. Having kids made me more patient, I don't know how patient or not patient you are but I was pretty inpatient, loads of people are naturally very patient people. If a nurse said that being a nurse made her less judgemental would think the implication is clear, that everyone who isn't a medic is judgemental? Or would you just think that maybe she had some preconceived ideas that her job knocked out of her? The same for the most important job, lots of people praise nurses as the most hardworking do you think that the implication is clear? That if you are not a nurse you are not hardworking?

musixa · 13/08/2023 19:29

people praise nurses as the most hardworking do you think that the implication is clear? That if you are not a nurse you are not hardworking?

Clearly if you say nurses are the 'most' hardworking, logic dictates all other professions are less hardworking.

Inmybirthdaysuit · 13/08/2023 19:30

PostItInABook · 13/08/2023 19:22

This is so rude, but typical of the tone deaf responses these kind of threads get. Have you seen some of the arseholes that call themselves parents out there? It’s honestly laughable that this gets bandied around as a negative…..having the self awareness, self worth and knowledge that having a child is not a good idea……for the child p, nor yourself…..is actually a good thing and should be applauded.

If anything, it’s more selfish to bring a child into the world that you know you can’t care for adequately for 18 years……that you already know you can’t afford (you know, that 3rd, 4th, 5th kid you’re popping out when you can’t even feed the 2 you already have properly), that won’t have a proper family unit or role models (because even though your husband is a lazy abusive dick you’ve deluded yourself having a baby will be fine), that will be neglected or abused……all just because you want to. You’re creating a human being to live in a shit environment….for yourself and to satisfy your emotional needs…..you don’t think about the child at all.

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Jesus, calm down. I wasn't saying I thought that. I was explaining my understanding of why selfish and choosing not to have children are put together. I have no strong feelings either way on this so your rant is lost on me I'm afraid.

Pandaflop · 13/08/2023 19:31

ilovetomatosoup · 13/08/2023 18:21

Some choose not to share (and don't want to share) their breeding choices but unfortunately the 'do you have any children/family' is a classic conversation starter up there with the weather is weird this summer isn't it and have you been on holiday.

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Unfortunately this never ends either. Curiosity as to why you don't have children, then omg only 1 when are you having another, aw 2 but are you disappointed you didn't have a boy/girl, woah 3+ that's crazy. My general line of thinking is that if someone ever wants to talk about having children, choosing not to have children or whatever else I'll listen and support, but I don't ask mainly as I'm not arsed but also as it's no ones business.

Fizzology · 13/08/2023 19:33

Inmybirthdaysuit · 13/08/2023 19:06

I dont think people generally mean it's selfish not to have children rather they mean that a person is too selfish to have children. Ie they think that the person wouldn't be able to put themself aside enough to look after another human adequately.

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No, we don't think that. Again, wtf.

Inmybirthdaysuit · 13/08/2023 19:34

musixa · 13/08/2023 19:29

people praise nurses as the most hardworking do you think that the implication is clear? That if you are not a nurse you are not hardworking?

Clearly if you say nurses are the 'most' hardworking, logic dictates all other professions are less hardworking.

Right but you don't take it literally do you? It's just something that is bandied about to make people feel better. Nurses because they can get shit pay for a tough job. Mums because they get no pay for a tough job. Its like when you say 'thanks your the best' when someone does something nice for you. You don't literally mean they are the best person to ever walk the walk the earth. You just want to convey that you are grateful for what they did.

Inmybirthdaysuit · 13/08/2023 19:35

Fizzology · 13/08/2023 19:33

No, we don't think that. Again, wtf.

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Oh so what do you mean when you talk about selfishness and nit having children? Or do you not talk about it all so it isn't about you?

WhatDoIKnowAboutThis · 13/08/2023 19:38

willWillSmithsmith · 13/08/2023 19:03

I can never understand why being childless is being selfish. Does anyone know? I mean apart from not making someone a grandparent (which isn’t selfish or a good reason to have kids) I can’t think of a single reason why this gets trotted out.

I know, it’s crazy.
I mean parents are crazy selfish most of the time.
Just because they might think about their own kid, doesn’t mean they are selfless.
Usually parents think they can bulldoze over other just because they are parents/for their kids.
That’s selfish as hell!

HamBone · 13/08/2023 19:42

MiddleParking · 13/08/2023 17:35

I think most people significantly overestimate other people’s interest in them.

I agree, @MiddleParking.

If we’re honest with ourselves, most of us have practically zero interest in anyone else’s life choices, unless they’re a close friend or relative.

Even then, it’s nothing to do with me unless it directly affects me.

CaptainJackSparrow85 · 13/08/2023 19:42

I devote very little headspace to why the childfree women I know are childfree because it’s absolutely none of my business. But if that’s the experience childfree women say they have, then I believe them.

onlylovecanhurtlikethis · 13/08/2023 19:44

I certainly don't obsess about it - I might idly wonder particularly if they were married and in a seemingly long term stable relationship. I don't assume they are child haters but i did stumble across a thread in childfree mumsnet where it was openly stated by the majority of posters that they hated children and could barely stomach being around them which certainly does play to the stereotype though

musixa · 13/08/2023 19:48

Inmybirthdaysuit · 13/08/2023 19:34

Right but you don't take it literally do you? It's just something that is bandied about to make people feel better. Nurses because they can get shit pay for a tough job. Mums because they get no pay for a tough job. Its like when you say 'thanks your the best' when someone does something nice for you. You don't literally mean they are the best person to ever walk the walk the earth. You just want to convey that you are grateful for what they did.

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To be honest, if someone said that to me, I would take it at face value and (depending on circumstances and context) I might well start listing other professions who work as hard as nurses (but get little thanks for it).

I don't tend to be 'gushy' when I thank people, I tend to be specific and factual about how they've helped me.

I'm sure it is tough being a mum, but it is a choice, it's not forced on them or necessary for their personal survival.

Sandra1984 · 13/08/2023 19:49

I’m mid 50’s, childless, single and financially independent. I like my life and NEVER wanted kids, don’t regret it one ounce. My grandmother used to give me long speeches on what a terrible decision I had made. I find it’s mostly older women giving me the “chat”. Besides my gran nobody has ever cared I’m childless, I’ve never experienced anyone obsessing over my choice not to have children.

MinnieTruck · 13/08/2023 19:52

Who really gives a fuck

TedMullins · 13/08/2023 19:53

I am childfree and don’t mind telling people if the topic comes up but I have to say I’ve never been grilled or questioned or pressured about it (except by a man on a date!) I believe other childfree people when they say they have, but I don’t think I’ve ever been asked by a friend, colleague or family member if I wanted children and if not why not, or any of the other drivel people say they’ve had said to them. So I’m inclined to agree with OP but maybe I’ve just been lucky

Louloulouenna · 13/08/2023 19:55

@onlylovecanhurtlikethis I had the misfortune to read that thread too. I couldn’t care less if people decide not to have children but that thread was extremely unpleasant and gave the impression that the posters were a pretty miserable bunch of people.

Bizarre to come on to a parenting site to talk about how much you loathe children.

Jifmicroliquid · 13/08/2023 19:57

I was once quizzed for 20 minutes by a man I worked with about why I didn’t want to have children. I didn’t think much of it but when he left, my colleague told me she couldn’t believe how rude he had been to question me like that.
I have noticed it, but often in quite a subtle way. Those stupid FB posts about not knowing true love or not being a complete woman until you’ve had a child. Usual vomit inducing drivel.

musixa · 13/08/2023 20:04

Louloulouenna · 13/08/2023 19:55

@onlylovecanhurtlikethis I had the misfortune to read that thread too. I couldn’t care less if people decide not to have children but that thread was extremely unpleasant and gave the impression that the posters were a pretty miserable bunch of people.

Bizarre to come on to a parenting site to talk about how much you loathe children.

If you mean this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/childfree-mumsnetters/4867241-i-am-so-happy-not-having-kids there are hardly any posters even approaching a 'loathing' of children. The majority are simply saying why they personally are happy not to have them. Several make a point of saying they like children. You don't have to 'loathe' children not to want your own.

Defiantjazz · 13/08/2023 20:06

Child free women do get judged though it’s not as bad as it used to be. Mothers also get judged for various reasons to be fair. In fact just being female seems to invite judgement.

Evieanne · 13/08/2023 20:19

Important distinction

Childless - people who do want kids but can’t have them, or haven’t been able to have them yet

child free - people who can have kids but do not want them and will seek to actively abort a pregnancy every single time, even as far as wanting to be sterilised or having their partners sterilised to avoid all pregnancies

Everyone knows different groups of people from various backgrounds, many are more traditional than others and a lot of people I know are quite interfering about whether people have children or not. In the culture most people I know follow, people are asked when they’re getting married, when they’re having children (if married) and parents of married children often ask their kids when they will be having grandchildren, their friends and extended family ask this too

Louloulouenna · 13/08/2023 20:22

@musixa There are posters on that thread referring to children as “ghastly” “shrieking” and a “burden” and other who talk about how much they dislike being around children. Just seems odd to choose a parenting site to post this sort of stuff.

Evieanne · 13/08/2023 20:27

Louloulouenna · 13/08/2023 20:22

@musixa There are posters on that thread referring to children as “ghastly” “shrieking” and a “burden” and other who talk about how much they dislike being around children. Just seems odd to choose a parenting site to post this sort of stuff.

Financially and emotionally children ARE a burden on a household. They’re a huge responsibility to take care which many find pointless doing because they don’t want to take on the extra pressure. Life is hard as it is without children, let alone having them. a lot of children create extra noise pollution and a lot of people with sensory differences cannot handle it. Same for dogs!

Louloulouenna · 13/08/2023 20:29

I can honestly say I have never found my children to be a burden, financially or emotionally. I can’t relate to that at all.

zoomingale · 13/08/2023 20:30

Louloulouenna · 13/08/2023 19:55

@onlylovecanhurtlikethis I had the misfortune to read that thread too. I couldn’t care less if people decide not to have children but that thread was extremely unpleasant and gave the impression that the posters were a pretty miserable bunch of people.

Bizarre to come on to a parenting site to talk about how much you loathe children.

As opoosed to going on the childfree board when you do have children?