To think most people do not 'obsess' over why a woman is childfree?

[Eastie77Returns]

I know several women in their late 30s/early 40s who do not have children. I know one is not childfree by choice (close friend) but have no idea about the others apart from two who have actively chosen to share that they have never wanted kids. I do not spend any time at all wondering why the others do not have children. I assume they don't want them or, as is sadly the case of my friend, are unable to but it isn't something I dwell on or speculate about.

I've read multiple columnists in newspapers and articles in magazines in which child free women declare that the public at large, and mothers in particular, are 'obsessesed' with women who do not have children and it's exhausting having to constantly explain why you do not have any etc. They are fed up with the general assumption that they are selfish, career-mad, horrible child haters and this sentiment mostly comes from women who have kids. I have DC as do most of my friends. In my 10 years as a parent I have never had a conversation with any of them about 'selfish' childless women. Most of us completely understand why someone would prefer not to have kids!

I might be alone in thinking this but I honestly don't think most people really care about a woman's childbearing status. Obviously there are many ridiculous individuals who think it's ok to question a woman's choice and trott out BS like "you've never known true love/what tiredness really is until...." but I honestly think they are in the minority and the majority of mothers do not really care. Or am I being naive? My friends who are childfree by choice tell me they have occasionally been asked if they have kids but with rare exceptions have not been asked why not or any other follow up questions.

Possibly not those precise terms but a recent discussion on a Mumsnet CF board described children using terms such as “ghastly” “shrieking” and a “burden”. I struggle to see how it would be acceptable to label any other group of people in this way and find it very odd that people would do it on a parenting site.

So if the CF are correct about their lifestyle being judged, it's at least a two way street.

You didn't caveat where it was or wasn't a two-way street, so your sweeping generalisation is then including MN and it's our fault for what people post elsewhere.

But that's the point...you can only imagine. Because it's only in your imagination.

It's not even vaguely unusual these days for women to not want children, and to say so. As with all things, there will be a tiny minority of people who think its their business, but they're the same people who if you had one child would want to know why not two, if you had four why do you have so many...it's nothing unique or special about you.

@Louloulouenna objectively those that don't wish to have children would view them as a burden though, as they take a large amount of financial, time and energy resources so that would be burdensome to someone who didn't wish to have them. It's not a value judgement. I'd find having a dog a burden too.

Diddums.

I just did quick AS or "crotch droppings" and it appears to be used by parents on here?

Diddums

What a lovely example you must be to your offspring.

@JudgeAnderson I can’t imagine any decent parent labelling their children a burden. I also don’t find it acceptable to label any group of people as a “burden” whether it be the elderly or the disabled or any one else.

So why are you even married if you don't want kids?

Argh, this one comes up on every childfree wedding thread! “But but but marriage is abouuuut procreation!”

What parents have said about kids in recent AIBU threads is much worse.

As you’ve been told all twenty eight times you’ve raised this point, “shrieking” is a description, and children can indeed be burdensome on those who don’t want them. Neither of these are insults.

Ghastly isn’t a nice word but it’s much tamer than “little shits” and “feral brats” (very frequently used on kid behaviour threads by parents).

Ignorant people, wind up merchants and people with massive fucking chips on the shoulders really don't mean vast bulk of people actually care in any way shape or form.

If it actually bothers you in real life - find a way of answering that makes them feel uncomfortable about their rude questions.

A parent calling their own child a burden is pretty awful (mine did it, to my face!). That’s completely different from a person with no children saying they don’t want the financial or emotional burden of hypothetical children who don’t exist.

If you genuinely can’t see the difference then I don’t know what to say.

People can decide for themselves what is and isnt a burden to them. it's not for you to decide or judge. Burden means a load, particularly a heavy one.
You try providing 24/7 care for a severely disabled child or elderly relative and come back and tell me it's never ever felt like burden.

I do provide 24/7 care for an elderly relative and I would never describe them as a burden.

How can you describe children as a burden if you’ve never had any? You might imagine what it’s like but the reality may well be different.

I think it's a logic failure. To be a decent parent involves an element of selflessness, therefore (to the logically challenged), since parent = selfless, childfree = selfish.

Or it's because the reasons people give for not wanting children often revolve around themselves (I want freedom, I don't want the financial burden etc) so it sounds selfish/self involved. But of course the reason for having children is equally self-involved (generally "I wanted them"). And obviously when it comes to something as significant as having a child, it is absolutely the time to prioritise what you want, rather than be persuaded into having a child you don't want. So "selfishness" (or rather, prioritising what you want for your life) is the only reasonable way to behave.

How can you describe children as a burden if you’ve never had any? You might imagine what it’s like but the reality may well be different.

I would find raising children a burden. I can see what child-rearing involves.
Disclaimer - no feelings of real children were hurt in the making of this statement.

I think this thread just proved that people do care and judge childfree women.
Couldn’t have done it better, not what op clearly was fishing for, but here we are!

How can you describe children as a burden if you’ve never had any? You might imagine what it’s like but the reality may well be different.

Because I know they cost money - that equals a financial burden- and because I have severe mental health issues, emotional dysregulation and generational trauma - having to raise a vulnerable human would deplete the resources I need to stay well and hold down my job.

Why does it matter whether or not we “know”? Would you rather we had some and then found out we were right and the kids get to live with the consequences?

I've never had a dog but I know I would find it a burden. I've never carried a massive rock up a mountain but I know I wouldn't like it.

If you are capable of rational thought and have some self awareness, you can know how you are likely to find something without actually needing to do it.

Do you also think that as you and your friends aren’t racist or homophobic (assuming you’re not), then racism and homophobia don’t exist in society?

@fitzwilliamdarcy I apologise, I didn’t consider mental health issues and trauma and I’m sorry. That’s what Mumsnet is great for as it gives you other perspectives you haven’t considered.

I just don’t like dehumanising language in general and as a carer to an elderly in law and parent to a child with SEN am sensitive to words such as “burden”.

I honestly have no idea what you're reading, because it doesn't appear to be this thread.

I am child free, I have to say that people ask why and are very nosey, I find it very rude, I try to end the conversation with vague responses but they want to keep drilling. I can’t understand why people want to know.

Thank you. I will say though - people don’t need to be traumatised to feel that there’s an emotional burden to having kids. They can just not fancy it, or think that they’d prefer a different kind of life to one involving parenthood.

There’s a difference between the use of burden in an individual sense (where looking after a dependent is a burden on time, money, emotional resolves) and the capitalistic societal sense (where anyone not “earning their way” is a burden on the rest of us). I have no time whatsoever for the second, and I assure you that CF people are not describing that when they talk about their own individual choice not to have kids.

Being lumbered with anything, or indeed anyone, that you don’t want to be lumbered with is indeed burdensome.