To think a house guest shouldn’t be parenting your kids?

[evuscha]

We had my DH’s friend staying with us for a few days, she’s single and childless in her early 50’s though claims that she knows everything about kids because she was a nanny when she was young. The whole time she wouldn’t get off my 4yo DD’s case, constantly reprimanding her for every little thing, saying things like “don’t you ever do that again” then saying it to my DH as a funny story later became of “how terrified” my DD looked at her….constantly throwing little digs like “oh you don’t give her time outs” or “oh she gets to pick which songs you listen to in a car?” (we take turns btw sometimes our music sometimes kids songs, apparently that’s appalling 😀) I’m expecting #2 soon so more digs like “oh I thought that was planned/wanted” whenever I said it will probably be tough or something along those lines.

I did speak up and stood up for my DD but none of my comments helped and I feel like it’s DH’s job to put HIS friend in her place? I would certainly be having stern words if my family/friends did that. I also have friends whose kids in my opinion get away with more than my DD but I would never dream of bossing their kids around (beyond the basic keeping everyone safe) in front of them? AIBU?

She wants to get her claws into your child to do what she thinks is a better job than you, her parents, are doing.

She wants another chance to verbally abuse your child.

Wrt calling your H 'too boring' - she seems to be ready and willing to verbally abuse the whole family.

This woman isn't a friend, she's a predator. She has found your husband is a doormat and latched on to your family. She's probing to see what you and your spineless H will let her get away with.

I'd drop her completely if I were you. She is grooming all three of you.

Yes I think you have a point and yeah I would be more than happy to drop her completely. It would just be nice to be properly backed up by DH, as in him actually seeing her behavior as toxic, rude and abusive, rather than “she loves DD, it’s just her ways”. That is kind of setting me up to be undermined again in future.
Although to be fair I don’t think DH will go to any extreme lengths to see her even on his own, he agreed to not letting her stay again, and she does live a long(ish) flight away so maybe I’m stressing over a non issue and maybe it will just fizzle out naturally (without significant effort to meet up from both sides). If she does directly ask me something, I will “tell her like it is” though.

OP, you are a maturing woman who wants to evolve from being a people pleaser, and I really commend you for that.

Invariably people pleasers are concerned with how they feel primarily, and what makes life more comfortable for them, and not of those closest to them.

You have clearly been woken up from this and want to assert yourself, for yourself, and for your child.

Your husband is irritating you because he is absolutely putting himself ahead of doing the right thing for his child.

I hope you work and will continue to be financially independent.

I think that is very important for you.

As you mature you may well leave your scared husband behind, your feelings may well change for him, as you realise you are not a real team whom has each others back.

As the children grow and you see other issues like this your respect for him will be chipped at and your love will diminish.

These things happen slowly and you realise you are actually the only real adult in the relationship and your childrens father is a scared little man that will deny things happened or pretend not to see things, absolutely a form of gaslighting IMO.

So protect yourself, because long term, losing your respect for your partner is terribly damaging to a relationship.

Yeah, unfortunately that is something to consider and keep in mind. I don’t want that to happen, I love DH very much, he is very kind, loving and my soul mate in so many ways. But I have been very annoyed by his continued non-reaction to this, and it’s irritating to think that he just wouldn’t have our back. (probably why I keep posting and dwelling on it even though my initial question was answered) He will agree to my terms (not having her over, not seeing her with kids) but only to keep peace with me and not to genuinely protect DD. And I also agree that tricky situations and issues around kids will happen more in future, and we really need to do better by them and not pretend they’re not happening.

Unsurprisingly we did have issues to do with his conflict avoidance before. One major discussion was around me not wanting in-laws here right after baby #2 is born - again he was very reluctant to tell them that and couldn’t see why it’s an issue when they’re “so helpful” (but that’s a whole other thread I made a while ago). Second event when a friend of his owed him a very large sum of money (that he invested with them way before we even met, so in theory nothing to do with me, but now he needed it back for our house renovation, and the said friend started ignoring him, not answering calls etc) - again a whole long other story but I was pushing him to take a legal action and he just wouldn’t. (the friend did pay him back eventually but it really could have gone either way) So the current score is not great really.

Evuscha
The problem, as I’m sure you’ve already found, is letting your resentment and frustration build up about someone’s rude behaviour.

You say it eventually brings you to the point where you explode. If you’re anything like me, that leaves you feeling worse about yourself than before because you, as a reasonably calm rational person, recognise it as a loss of self control.

You may even say things you have not thought through properly in a way you may not have meant. I know I did!
After hours of dissecting how I had dealt, or not dealt with a situation, I would come to the conclusion I was rubbish at dealing with conflict which only reinforced my reluctance to deal with it.

It’s a reinforcing cycle of reluctant restraint, building resentment and explosive reaction!

However, I’ve realised if I can deal with situations assertively as they arise, I can do it in a more controlled way before I get to exploding point.

It’s not easy to change, you may even have to practice some responses to imaginary situations in front of the mirror, but it will pay dividends in boosting your confidence and setting a good example for your DD and possibly even your DH!

The link below may be useful to help you, learning to be more assertive has certainly helped me.

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/assertiveness#

1. "not to sound mean but an opinion of someone that hasn’t raised their own kids is just not relevant to me"

Some children are raised by their nannies...
In any case, childless people have to live in society with spoilt children so I don't think it's quite fair to say that the childless should just put up with naughty behaviour from the children around them.

Thank you. That’s definitely useful! I absolutely freeze in the moment, then overthink the situation and then explode. Responding politely and assertively but without the anger or sarcasm is something I need to work on. Even now I probably wouldn’t be able to get into this discussion with her without emotions, and would likely be dismissed as hormonal and over sensitive, rather than actually being taken seriously.

I have now and she would be getting told to pack her sh!t and leave immediately then cut off, tbh I don't know how they've put up with it for this long she sounds absolutely horrendous

So the friend got suspicious of the fact I ignored all the group messages, and messaged DH privately to ask if I’m ok. Him realizing that pretending this situation never happened and hoping that by next year I forget will not work, eventually told her something like “evuscha thought you were too negative to DD and didn’t like some things you said”, so she sent me a half arsed apology about how she’s “sorry if she said some things that may offend, I didn’t mean it, sometimes I talk too much but I adore DD” 🙄

Somehow it didn’t make things all peachy for me, I am still just as determined to not let her near DD again, maybe even more determined actually.
I’m also extremely angry with DH, all this talk about how sorry he is and how he can see she was out of line and is on board with me, all was just a talk to shut me up and make the drama go away. Next opportunity he had, he made it an “evuscha issue”, when he could have said “we talked and WE thought you crossed the line and we do not wish for you to ever speak to DD that way”…no, of course it’s all evuscha.

evuscha thought you were too negative to DD and didn’t like some things you said

Wow your dh is sounding less attractive with every update.

I'd be telling him to piss off and go marry the friend instead.

@billy1966 is right on this one. Your dh is selfish. He puts himself and his feelings before you and your dd, and unless this changes, it'll seriously affect your relationship

That is more of an issue for me now than the original issue. She’s noone to me essentially but he’s the one that is supposed to have my back.

I don’t know how do I get him to change though. How do you make someone see that something is an issue, when they don’t think it is? He’s all about apologizing to me and promising how he will try harder - but I don’t know if that’s possible.
I suppose the only outcome for me is knowing that I only have myself to rely on, and next time I have to speak up if I don’t like his family or friends doing something to me or DD. And work on that assertiveness for myself.

Have you replied to her @evuscha

if it were me I’d say “thanks for your words, you don’t need to explain, not everyone likes kids and that’s fine, but my family is my priority and I don’t appreciate being criticised or undermined in my own home, so while im not going to get it in the way of DH friendships, it’s a huge effort to host people in my home and I’m only willing to do that for people are kind and loving to us all. Dd included.”

id specifically avoid thanking her for an apology because it wasn’t one and you both know this. She absolutely knows what she’s done and is trying to undermine you again by gas lighting you all.

tell her you know she knows she crossed a line and you’re not stupid enough to make the mistake of having her beat you/dd again.

She still claims she adores DD, and that she had a great time with all of us. 🙄 and no I didn’t thank her for an apology, there definitely wasn’t one, “sorry if you got offended” is a classic isn’t it! In the end I said something like: “You know what, I’m more upset with myself at this point because I should have done more to stand up for DD, especially since DH wouldn’t.” To that she responded “I definitely didn’t want to make you feel that way, very sorry”. I’m kind of done talking to her, not in a sulky way, just not in a mood to talk to her anymore (and most definitely not letting her near DD).

Both of them (her & DH) going on and on about “how that made evuscha feel”, rather than acknowledging that they behaved in a shitty way!

I’m definitely hormonal now and so very upset by this. I’ve also had a really shitty year so far (to cut story short my dad died recently and I didn’t get to see him before, and then I followed with 4 months of being bedridden lying in a dark room all day due to HG/nonstop pregnancy sickness)….they both know about this very well. All I wanted was to have a nice relaxing fun weekend with family and friends. Instead I got a weekend of shitty jokes “DD is a spoiled brat & you’re a weak mum who can’t set her straight, hahaha” - and neither of them even see anything wrong with it! It is absolutely just damage control from both of them in a “just say sorry to her so she can stop going on about it” way.

I’m really sorry about ranting and all that self pity, I’m grateful I can talk to someone though and really appreciate the comments.

"DD is a spoiled brat & you’re a weak mum who can’t set her straight, hahaha”

She really is utterly foul, isn't she? That isn't a joke on any planet! How absurd for her to now say she"adores" your DD. Who says that anyway?!

Vent away as much as you like. You've done incredibly well standing up to her when it doesn't come easily to you. Maybe your determination will encourage your dh to grow a backbone. If not, at least you know you're capable of defending yourself and your children.

Sorry to hear about the awful sickness. I went through that too. 💐

Sorry, she didn’t actually say those exact words, it was just my (clearly irrational according to them 🙄) interpretation of her endless comments of “you should do timeouts” etc and reprimanding her for every move - didn’t exactly scream “DD is amazing and you’re a wonderful mum” like she’s now trying to convince me she thinks.

And sorry you went through HG too - it is absolutely awful.

PS Maybe not right now, but at some point you'll need to tackle him about why he finds this OK, or says he does.
If he's too weak to defend his wife and children against anyone, not just this friend, that's a real long term problem.
If he's so terrified of even mild conflict that he persuades himself that the unpleasant behaviour happening right in front of his eyes isn't happening, that's also a problem. But he needs to be aware that children can see very clearly if a parent doesn't have their back, and it affects how they see that parent very drastically, especially as they get older. Does he want his kids to despise him for being weak and disloyal, or does he want to be a dad they're proud of and respect?

Her sorry, not sorry reaction is rubbish and gaslighting and I don't blame you for not wanting to discuss it further if she's continuing to spout stuff about how much she adores DD. She doesn't deserve more chances to justify how right she is. She's saying adores DD purely for your DH benefit.

Also, sorry for your lost and that you've had such a rotten year

It sounds like you stood up for yourself very well though and that you are not allowing yourself to be gaslighted. Perhaps its good that it came to a head and you've put your foot down so it won't happen again

I hope that this awful visit recedes from memory soon, you have time with your lovely DD and new baby to look forward to.

*loss

Thank you so much for your kind words 💐I really appreciate it. I suppose you’re right, it is good that it ended like this, I couldn’t go on pretending like nothing happened and we all had a great time. And her weird reaction just confirmed that my gut feeling to keep DD away from her from now on was correct all along.

This in spades.

I did explode on DH today, again not the ideal reaction I could have had, but we did end up having a more measured discussion afterwards. He is obviously not perfect but is overall a lovely kind man who loves his family, but a combination of men just not seeing those digs as digs, and him being bad at confrontation in general, led us to this shitshow.
I told him how I really need him to do better by DD, and to get better at setting people straight, and not in a “evuscha feels that x, y, z” way but in a real united front way. He said he will try harder and is genuinely sorry…so I guess only time and future events will tell.

God she’s either stupid, or thinks you are @evuscha

how on earth did she expect her behaviour to make you feel? How can she have such a different recollection of the weekend? Even your h acknowledges this fgs.

I reckon though that you have done enough now, she won’t come back and even if she does, YOU can say no to any visit even just broken record “it’s not convenient” if she pushes back- who cares if she’s seeing that it’s an excuse- she doesn’t care about you or your feelings so why waste a second worrying about how she feels being told she can’t stay at yours.

somehow @evuscha i reckon you’ve really been able to turn a corner here and will be far less people please-y in future

I suppose the only outcome for me is knowing that I only have myself to rely on, and next time I have to speak up if I don’t like his family or friends doing something to me or DD. And work on that assertiveness for myself.

I found myself there with family and DH - frankly I realised I was one getting stressed and upset and found I cared so much less about upsetting people. If I didn't push back no-one would - it seems to have modeled polite push back to my kids so helpful long term I suppose though at time felt awful - DH did get bit better with time.

I think I'd have replied to her with Your constant unwarranted criticism of my child normal behaviour was disrespectful and rude to myself and DH and potentially damaging to my DD - I'm astounded you claim to lack so much awareness about your own behavior . But then I wouldn't want her back or care if she was upset or frankly if DH was either.

Oh I definitely don’t care if she’s upset. I kind of hope she’s getting the hint and won’t ask to stay again but who knows… Maybe she really thought this weekend went well, or that it was a perfectly acceptable thing for her to do because everyone has to put up with “her ways”. And to be fair DH always did and if I didn’t put a stop to it, he always would I suppose, so she didn’t have a reason to even consider it. Though I did push back during the weekend a few times - not strongly enough but she did have a chance to notice I wasn’t happy. (just as she noticed I wasn’t happy when I stopped responding to messages) Surely the normal reaction would be to stop that behavior. But I suppose she didn’t expect me to really push back, she thought she was getting away with it as “that’s just her” as usual. I suspect another conversation will need to be had about this down the line because I suspect she will go back to pretending everything is great - she probably thinks her “apology” should be enough.
Anyway, my main concern now is DH, I hope he learned from this and will get better at having our back, despite the discomfort. I sure have learned that I need to speak up if noone else does, just need to work on that assertiveness part (this was definitely a case of waiting too long then blowing up).

OP, in your place I would exit the chat.
Mute her number.
This will make it very clear that you are done.

I think you have done your best in a sad situation.

You are correct that you really need to depend on yourself going forward.

A man who would stand by a woman who would bully his child, and step aside from his wife who was defending his child, is not a man with a moral compass you can depend on.

His priority is himself and what works for him.

I think that history has shown this to be true.

It's not a trait, it is in his DNA.

He made noises to appease you but threw you under a bus the first chance he got.

He is not a good man.
He is a very selfish man, the type that would stand by and allow a coach abuse his child and not step in.

Your children will grow up to see him for who he is.

In the interim you are already losing respect and your love will likely be replaced with disappointment, sadness, distaste and eventually you will be repulsed.

Keep your family and friends close.
Keep working full-time.

I think you assertiveness will only grow as you mature and you will realise that this selfish man simply isn't worthy of you and your children.