To ask how I make sure DS doesn’t end up like this..

[ValleyoftheLilly]

DH is great in lots of ways. But I am finding my nerves jangling due to some of his behaviours;

• standing in doorways/middle of the room for ten minutes at a time doing something on his phone. Not an affair for sure. It’s usually reading news or similar.
• leaving cupboard doors and drawers open after use.
• getting grumpy at the slightest hint of criticism (e.g. could you cook something healthy please I feel the need for nutrients - interpreted as ‘you never cook anything healthy’ - and then getting grumpy and sulky.
• doesnt work much - I’m the main breadwinner, which is fine, but he doesn’t seem to get much done. We have a cleaner because he can’t seem to do it. I just can’t figure out what he does do!!
• goes on long monologues about something he’s interested in despite no one being interested.
• dominates the conversation in social settings - even if it’s just MY friend visiting.
• doesnt ask people questions about themselves but goes on and on about what he’s been doing.
• performative housework - eg so if I clean a surface I lift any ornaments up as I go along and clean under them - he takes all the ornaments off, puts them on the floor, then cleans, then puts them all back. Huffing and puffing all the way. But won’t allow me to advise him on more efficient ways - I cleaned in my younger days and was very good at it, if I do say so myself.
• Huffs and puffs and sighs and moans about how busy he is to anyone who will listen. We have one DC age 12, three bed house, he works two days a week. He’s one of the least busy people I know.

I could go on. He has some lovely qualities but I’m hard pressed to recall them right now. I’m VERY pre menstrual and have a LOT going on emotionally so I’m not in the best place TBH. But dear god he’s doing my nut in!

Just needed a rant really. But seriously, how do I train DS?

Agree with this and others saying LTB. You've got another child instead of a partner and your DS will grow up saying "why do I have to, dad doesn't!!" It's tiresome and it's aggravating., and it will NEVER get better.

If you share care 50:50 then DH isn't entitled to your money, and your son can be in after school club or have a fantastic nanny (because you can afford it), rather than being exposed to problematic social / relational norms. And you could probably work a couple of longer days while DS is away, shorter days to be with him.

@ChristmasCrumpet

I'll tell you what is more damaging.

Dismissing a person potentially struggling with undiagnosed ND issues, as "just another shitty/cunty man"

Awful.

I'm not dismissing a person though? I don't know this man, even if I did he hasn't suggested to me he is autistic, so how am I dismissing him? OP never suggested he was autistic and if she did I would take that as her saying so with deeper knowledge than the few points in the OP.

I'm saying people need to stop jumping to autism as a response to a 'my husband/insert family member' is a selfish, thoughtless and utterly unhelpful human being.

OP, just keep your Ds engaged alongside you. Encourage him to problem solve, give good feedback and praise when he works hard at something, solves a problem (small problems: “can you find something to store the leftover pie in “ rather than “please get the Tupperware out of the middle cupboard”.

Encourage him to do things that are a challenge, a recipe, find out to fix stuff on YouTube. Let him enjoy taking responsibility rather than viewing things a a chore.

Surely everyone has met at least one person who is neurodiverse or had dementia?

Well, he stands in doorways!
And is a 'pig' according to one poster :)

Just because that's what you're hearing doesn't mean that's what being said.

I'm saying people need to stop jumping to autism as a response to a 'my husband/insert family member' is a selfish, thoughtless and utterly unhelpful human being. .... Is your interpretation of:

People are alerting OP to the specific similarities they can recognise as traits they/their spouse/child have directly related to being ND, because she might need to consider this avenue.

Also, unfortunately, a lot of ND traits, can be as you have described them. My ADHD DC is thoughtless, and frequently comes across as selfish. So it's by no means ridiculous that another person who someone sees as thoughtless and selfish, might also have ADHD. A lot of ND traits do present as negative behaviour. That's alas, a fact.

OP it sounds really frustrating. If you can talk with your husband- maybe on a day out/in a neutral setting just the two of you- and lay out the biggest problems maybe that would help you find a way forward?

More generally, I’m really puzzled about how many people are satisfied with the ‘x is just selfish and lazy’ response. Are people really just selfish and lazy for no reason- aside from teenagers (where the reason is often hormonal)? It seems to me to be much more common that there is a reason for all less-than-ideal behaviour, and if you can find that, (with love and concern not judgement and scorn), then you can probably find a way forward.

This....my daughter is diagnosed as young adult and would do all of this.

Experience meaning living with and/or caring for someone with these conditions (or working in that area) - not meeting someone briefly.

And can you imagine inflicting the consequences of your daughters ADHD on her partner?

Mine has it to do you know who is the only person that gives a fuck ? Me.

I can’t imagine at some stage, some unsuspecting man will put up with her only working two days a week and being shit house work and wanting a cleaner and boring the pants off him or her.

It’s fine to have all these issues it’s fine to go and seek help and support. What’s not fine is to inflict it on somebody else.

Hibiscrubbed has got straight to what I feel is the main point. What he DOES do (the behaviours you listed in the OP) are deeply annoying, but what he DOESN'T do is what I would be concentrating on.

"He doesn’t work much as circumstance’s changed. I may push for him to do more. Financially it would make more sense for me to work more as I can work more but until he is better at domestic stuff that feels impossible."
I found myself nodding along to TheYearOfSmallThings - "It sounds to me as if nothing has ever been expected or demanded of your husband?" He works two days, which gives him three free days for 'domestic stuff'. But instead, "We have a cleaner because he can’t seem to do it." Just how bad was he? And what does he do with all this free time?

"Huffs and puffs and sighs and moans about how busy he is to anyone who will listen. We have one DC age 12, three bed house, he works two days a week. He’s one of the least busy people I know."
Have you ever pointed this out to him, or, given how offended he gets, have you not? Because if not, we're back to "nothing has ever been expected or demanded" of him. He's just permitted to push this narrative of himself which is wholly untrue.

Before you married, what were his living circumstances? Did he live alone, with his parents, with flatmates? How did he manage the domestic stuff then? Was it all done for him, or did he live in squalor, or did he manage? Since you married, has he always been like this or has he got worse? I'm not asking you to post the answers to my huge number of questions, but I do think you should answer them TO YOURSELF. I think they'll help you to see where you are and how you got here. Because 'here' is not a good place at all.

Armed with those answers, I'd then follow Serendipitoushedgehog's advice -

"Can you sit down with him and tell him that you are finding the marriage difficult and here’s all the reasons why? Surely as the breadwinner you hold the cards in this scenario."

Because I think you have to make it plain to your husband that he needs to start making some changes. At the very least, he needs to acknowledge that he has it very cushy, he's not 'busy' in the slightest, and he needs to pull his own weight at least, in order to model good adult behaviour to your son. Which is why you're on MN asking for help. Because right now, your husband's behaviour is training your son to be exactly like his dad. Your son sees absolutely no downside to his dad's behaviour, because his mum just accommodates whatever his dad does. Drop to two days' work? Mum works. Doesn't do domestic stuff? Mum hires a cleaner. Claims he busy when he's clearly not? Mum doesn't correct him. Between you, you're training him to be like his dad.

I read it here on Mumsnet, and I repeat it endlessly. IF YOU DO WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DONE, YOU'LL GET WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS GOT. So if you want your husband to change his behaviour, then you have to set the ball rolling by changing how you react to it.

The cause is important actually. Because there are limits to how much a disabled person can (and should have to)change their disability-related behaviour to accomodate the rest of the world.

If the OP'S dh is neurodiverse he's not going to be able to act neurotypical no matter how much she wants him to. And if her son is neurodiverse then she's not going to be able to train that out of him either.

And as others say, it does get worse, not better. I’ve known the old guy who lives next door to us go from being just a miserable bastard. To beating his wife around the head with a walking stick. It was dementia of course, but he was never a pleasant person ever even in his 40s.

Are there any ND women here who work only 2 days a week, do no housework and have a cleaner? Would love to know.

It’s fine to have all these issues it’s fine to go and seek help and support. What’s not fine is to inflict it on somebody else.

And that's exactly why people are alerting op to the possibility her husband may be neurodiverse @Fuckingfuming1.
Because it's hard to manage a condition you don't even know you have.

Completely agree. I still wouldn’t keep him as some oversized pet taking up room in the house. My daughter is so autistic there are times I worry about her crossing the road. She has a first class honours degree and works five days a week.

ASD traits for sure..

I am assuming from the OP that maybe neither she or her partner have any idea he might be neuro diverse and maybe he could be persuaded to be assessed. This could change life for them. Even understanding that it is a condition and not personal or deliberate helps.
When my daughter was diagnosed and we realised it is often hereditary,I noticed I had a lot of ADD traits as does my dad and one of my brothers, one of my dad's brothers and several of my cousins. It was just normal growing up in a neuro diverse family. However, my mum now says she finds dad's eccentricities much easier to cope with, knowing it might be a condition he cannot help.

Also it may help op to know re ND. It can actually help to know that someone is not disregarding you or not caring about you, but is simply struggling because of a condition they have. Maybe not practically, but emotionally, it helps.

Men like this are a dime a dozen. If they find a woman who will let them get away with it, they do. You need to expect more from him. Ask more. Demand more. If he doesn't like it, he can huff and puff his way out the front door.

Cross post @vdbfamily, looks like we've had similar experiences

You have a cleaner,he doesn't do much and you have a singular child who's going into year 8 after the holidays.

He needs to up his working days from 2 to 5 and he needs to pay for additional hours for your cleaner;that's at a minimum.

Are you my friend?

However, my mum now says she finds dad's eccentricities much easier to cope with, knowing it might be a condition he cannot help.

and is that what you would wish on your daughter to have to cope with it ? Quite simply men would not cope with it. They wouldn’t put up with it. Why should the OP?