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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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32
Lollipopsicle · 13/08/2023 15:29

Testina · 13/08/2023 14:50

Shall I email talktothepress and try to sell them this thread for the follow up? 🤣
We could afford MN biscuits all round!

Ooh, can I put in an advance order for Fox's Golden Crunch Creams please?

Testina · 13/08/2023 15:30

As for Iuliia’s lesser footprint… she may not really be much of a yoga teacher. That’s just Clive said in the interview. She might have run a few classes ages ago, or be planning to do so - and wouldn’t like him saying, “she’s a morning cleaner at Aldi”.

But in addition to that, you’ve got the complication of transposing from Cyrillic.
She is online as Iuliia and Yulya, and may also I suppose have used Julia. (or Lia, or Julz…) Then there’s Gurzhii. Would you use that professionally or Anglicise it? I searched “Kristina Gurzhii” (possibly the aunt) and found someone on Twitter with the handle KristinaGurzhii but the description underneath with Gurgiy. Just think of the number of ways you seen Zelenskii/y/iy spelt since he catapulted into our media reports!

I think Iuliia may be diluted across multiple names and spellings.

I actually found a Julia yoga teacher in the north west from Russia! Even looked like Iuliia. But my excitement was short lived as Julia’s Russian uni days didn’t match Iuliia’s age.

LadyHester · 13/08/2023 15:32

OK if Clive Gurzhii and Clive Fitzpatrick are definitely the same man, then based on the reporting of the court case I’m calling stupidity rather than criminality. Clive is selling their story in an attempt to raise cash and ineptly editing out some inconvenient details, thus giving rise to inconsistencies and gaps.
As a pp so wisely said, you hear hooves, you look for horses, not unicorns cantering the wrong way down a dual carriageway drawing a baby in a wheeled yacht flanked by dolphins and with sails patched together from birth certificates and immigration forms.

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2023 15:33

Testina · 13/08/2023 15:09

@LadyHester my belief on the names now is:

  • born Fitzpatrick (think a clever MNer found his birth certificate?) Also he’s Fitzpatrick in 2016 court case, which I guess is likely to have been brought in his legal name?
  • in 2015 he’s already using Gurzhii for some race events. I think that’s because he was banned for a year by the race authorities (unknown why) and is sneakily still entering races. After the court case he may also want to use Gurzhii because of the easily found conviction
  • in 2016 ish he uses Freeman. I’m bowing to another MNers view that this is in honour of him being a Freetwat of the Land. He’s already ditched his birth name, so another change is easy enough

What I don’t have a theory for, is whether David and Clive Fitzpatrick are one and the same and if so - why the first name change.

Abandoning Lisa Jewell for the moment and going more Jodi Piccoult though, I’m going to make David his twin brother, who later helped with a wee fertility issue. The delay in getting the DNA results is because Dave flew to Grenada, and when the Consul staff member wasn’t looking, Clive ran into the loo to switch places with identical-twin Dave for the test.

Why were Dave and Yuliya living together in 2014?
Then in 2015 Clive and Iuliia are living together.
At the same address.

So are you suggesting that Iuliia was shagging Clive's twin or did Dave just introduce his flatmate to Clive? Iuliia daughter was born in 2015 though right? So is Dave the father or is Clive? Does Iuliia even know which is the father?

Does this explain why Clive fucked off to Fleetwood where he appears on the Electoral Role in 2018 leaving a heartbroken Iuliia alone?

Is Louisa a last ditch attempt to try the relationship again? If so was she planned or an accident? If she's an accident and Iuliia was desparate to win back Dave, errr Clive, (errrr can she tell the difference between them?) did Iuliia go to the Caribbean in an attempt to try and impress her lover?

Is Dave still alive? Or did the couple murder him and bury him under the patio, then panicked and THATS the real reason they've fucked off to Saint Lucia? (And forgot to check that theres an extradiction treaty with Grenada but not Saint Lucia).

Was the marriage real in the first place? Or did she marry him for a visa, then they split up only to fall in love for real?

Is her sister living in the UK too? Or somewhere else? Is she in on the murder plot too?

Have I been trying to think up too many naff Death in Paradise storylines?

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 13/08/2023 15:33

Tbf could have also given birth on the plane over there too… also planned to give birth five weeks early?

LadyHester · 13/08/2023 15:35

I’m betting Dave is a misreading of a handwritten Clive.

LouHey · 13/08/2023 15:39

Saschka · 12/08/2023 13:51

I hadn’t considered this, but it would actually also explain the 8 year age gap between their first child and second - paid surrogacy rather than planned baby.

Clymene · Yesterday 13:38

I think selling the baby is the most likely story too.
I hadn’t considered this, but it would actually also explain the 8 year age gap between their first child and second

I've got an 8 year gap between my dd2 and dd3 - is there a rule about having to have children close together I didn't know about? Lol There's a 6 year gap between my DD1 and DD2. I had 2 in nappies with 3 and 4 and tandem breastfed, I was right the first time around, space them out!! Lol

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2023 15:43

LadyHester · 13/08/2023 15:35

I’m betting Dave is a misreading of a handwritten Clive.

oooo good call. but much less amusing.

Clymene · 13/08/2023 15:48

@LouHey

You've quoted someone quoting me there.

I said: I think selling the baby is the most likely story too.

Someone quoted me and replied:
I hadn’t considered this, but it would actually also explain the 8 year age gap between their first child and second

Smile
Testina · 13/08/2023 15:57

@RedToothBrush I’ve now decided that Dave and Clive are both real and are identical twins. Both have lived with Iuliia and slept with her.

BUT IULIIA DOESN’T KNOW!!!

Why this subterfuge? Well, see all the fell running races Clive was winning? He was running the first 50% at a fair clip, not having to conserve himself, getting far enough ahead of the pack for Dave to then nip out from behind a boulder, fresh to finish the race.

There’s even a blog post asking how the hell Clive (out in front) managed to change from road running to fell running shoes so quickly - they switch mid race. Now we know! It was Dave behind a rock!!!

He would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn’t been for that pesky dual carriageway / immigration law.

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2023 16:02

Testina · 13/08/2023 14:50

Shall I email talktothepress and try to sell them this thread for the follow up? 🤣
We could afford MN biscuits all round!

🤣🤣🤣🤣

itsgettingweird · 13/08/2023 16:05

Freetwat of the Land

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I just love how in the middle of a very sensible and informative post you manage to type such things so seriously.

Daddydog · 13/08/2023 16:05

Just put two and two together and realised why they are having so much trouble registering the birth... if one or both of them has legally changed their names (which looks really likely) that's the missing piece to why they are having trouble.

I got married in the Carribbean 3 years ago and my partner was adopted only a few weeks old. Because I expected this as I've worked abroad and bureaucracy in former colonies is a total nightmare! I spent weeks getting documents and proof of the adoption to take with me. It wasn't easy as the process was really long winded when I got there but thank god I had every scrap of evidence needed because it was all needed!

If these monkeys didn't take such documents, even their own birth certificates - good luck to that! Even getting my work Visa for India I have to supply info of my father whose been dead for 20 years! Always wonder what would happen if I didn't know who my father was because unwed single mothers isn't a concept the good people reviewing my work visa understand in India! Same when I got my work permit for Nigeria and put N/A for Religion I got called into the consolate and was asked exactly why I don't have a religion hehe

HonoriaLucastaDelagardie · 13/08/2023 16:11

Have any of the sleuths on here done a birth certificate search for "David Clive Fitzpatrick" born on 1972/3? Maybe in Tameside.

Clive Fitzp was born in Manchester in 1972, and married there (If it's the same Clive) in 2003. There are a fair few David Fitzps born in the NW, but none of them with the same mother's maiden name as Clive's mother.

timesaretight · 13/08/2023 16:15

Nothing to do with us.

LadyHester · 13/08/2023 16:18

@timesaretight You are being ironic, right?

FilthyforFirth · 13/08/2023 16:18

This thread is amazing. Nothing further to add.

Team surrogacy theory.

Testina · 13/08/2023 16:20

@HonoriaLucastaDelagardie did he marry someone also with initials CF? I don’t know how to find marriage certificate but I think I’ve found the first wife elsewhere. Not putting the name because I expect she had enough “oh Clive 🤦‍♀️” shit in her marriage and she’s innocent here.

viques · 13/08/2023 16:28

Testina · 13/08/2023 11:47

I don’t know the timing of this photo, but they’re not far out to sea.

i am a bit shocked to see that they have opted for disposable nappies, I am pretty sure the world wide use of disposable nappies will at some point have an adverse effect on other peoples dreams of beach birthing……

HonoriaLucastaDelagardie · 13/08/2023 16:30

did he marry someone also with initials CF?

Yes, that's right. I didn't want to mention her name, or mother's maiden name, for same reasons.

I used Find My Past - I have a subscription.

Daddydog · 13/08/2023 16:33

viques · 13/08/2023 16:28

i am a bit shocked to see that they have opted for disposable nappies, I am pretty sure the world wide use of disposable nappies will at some point have an adverse effect on other peoples dreams of beach birthing……

Haha as does the carbon footprint of flying 4,000 miles on a plane to give birth! Mind you, if everyone did that the seas will rise and Manchester could become a tropical island!

VanWeezer · 13/08/2023 16:35

Loving at the sleuthing from MNetters. Great thread

The DNA test was probably really hard to get. To prove nationality, you also have to be really sure who is being tested so need documentation. With all the name changes that will be a nightmare. So it's not just a simple swap and send it off to the nearest lab. The lab would also need to be acceptable to the British government, so more likely it would have to be sent abroad as the islands seem fairly small.

Also has anyone found a marriage certificate for the 'mum'? If she still married to someone else, British nationality couldn't go through Clive/Dave as dad is considered husband of the mother. If she isn't married, then it gets more complicated until a birth certificate is sorted

TiredCatLady · 13/08/2023 16:35

This totally needs to go in classic threads.

And I really hope SS are on the lookout for wherever the poor 8 year old actually is.

LouHey · 13/08/2023 16:42

Clymene · 13/08/2023 15:48

@LouHey

You've quoted someone quoting me there.

I said: I think selling the baby is the most likely story too.

Someone quoted me and replied:
I hadn’t considered this, but it would actually also explain the 8 year age gap between their first child and second

Smile

I'm sorry, I didn't even mean to include the quote, I was just copying from it - urgh. I'm full of the cold right now and operating on about 40% brain power I think lol.

I reckon there is definitely more to the story.

RedToothBrush · 13/08/2023 16:46

Clive and Iuliia had a tumultuous relationship fueled by Clive's paranoia. Iuliia had fallen in with Clive as he showered her with dates, gifts, and jewellery.

Iuliia and Clive, had lived for years in Stalybridge, far away from the sandy white beaches of Grenada. Their days were dreary and uneventful. To outsiders they were happy enough. However this wasn't enough for Clive. Aided and abetted by his twin Dave, Clive had ambitions and soon achieved the glory of being a fell running champion. Clive loved the attention it brought him. However Dave demanded that Clive help him and pay him back or he would expose Clive's cheating. Clive had tried to say no to Dave's request, but Dave blackmailed him and Clive took this seriously after he received a warning in the form of a short ban from racing due to someone reporting another minor technical mistake by Clive. He was trapped! He had to do whatever Dave wanted.

Clive looked for ways out of the mess he now found himself in. A spark or hope had been kindled inside of Clive after watching an episode of Death in Paradise. In that episode, the characters had moved to a small island to start a new life and Clive thought that it was the perfect way to escape the his dark secrets in the UK. A plan was born.

Though Iuliia was originally hesitant, Clive persisted. His enthusiasm had a special power over Iuliia and soon the couple had made their way to Grenada, 4,000 miles away from their UK home.

The plan had been for Iuliia to give birth to their baby on a beach in St Lucia, a dream of natural beauty that bordered on foolishness. But little did they know that Iuliia's waters would break unexpectedly while they were travelling on a boat between the island in the middle of the night.

When baby Louisa was born, the couple were still at sea and their dreams of sharing a picture perfect Instagram moment were dashed as Clive had forgotten to charge his mobile phone. With no doctors or other medical personnel present, the couple made a huge error. This error would later make them feel like prisoners.

With no one to confirm Iuliia was the child's natural mother, they were trapped on the island and both unable to escape or to gain an illusive right to citizenship there. Their own dreams appearred to had been dashed and Clive and Iuliia had unwittingly placed their own lives in danger. Dave now knew that they had left the country. Faced with a maxed credit card bill of £6000 time was running out for the couple before they would be deported without their child and into the path of Dave keen to reap his revenge on Clive for daring to try and escape his clutches.

Clive was faced with a dilemma. Clive, knew that he could not trust the authorities with his DNA. Not only that but he knew that his DNA could lead to his terrible secret being uncovered. Or more correctly the secret of his identical twin brother Dave that Clive had spent so many years diligently trying to cover up. Nor could he let the fact that Iuliia wasn't in fact married to Clive and instead had given her vows unwittingly to Dave be exposed. In desparation Clive decided to try and bully the British authorities into getting a waiver for the DNA test, by selling his story to a friendly journalist.

Many years ago Clive had previously been banned from driving after going down a double carriage way the wrong way. The mysterious circumstances of how and why he had done this, had never been discovered by the police. He had thought that he had escaped with just a driving ban and Dave was in the clear. However his running career was now over for good due to the injury he sustained in the car. Nonetheless Clive carried on with life. Afraid of what might happen he was prudent and begun using fake names and pretending to be a Freeman of the Land as an excuse for this, in order to help try and cover up his evil twin's past.

Iuliia, until now, had accepted Clive's explanation that he had simply missed the road signs and that he was into conspiracy theories. However with the authorities beginning to grow suspicious her own concerned bubbled to the surface. The authorities began to ask difficult questions: Were this couple child trafficking on the cheap, using some unknown birth mother to give them a baby? Were the couple, moving drugs between the islands? The pressure started to take its toll. Iuliia already faced doubts about her relationship with Clive, her much older baldy skinny wretch of a husband, and now began to see through Clive's web of lies. Alone with her daughter in another country far away apparently with her Aunt, Iuliia's fears started to grow. Would she ever be reunited with her elder daughter? Why HAD Clive speed off into the night, bundling her and her daughter into the car in a panic all those years ago? Why on earth WAS Clive refusing to agree to a DNA test?

The couple now face an uncertain future, unable to register the baby's birth or apply for a passport. Left adrift and stricken with a cold chilling thought, Iuliia started to panic. But Clive had a plan and clung to the hope that they may still be able to make a future in the Carribean and start over with the proceeds of a GoFundMe scam to get enough money together to apply for citizenship in Saint Lucia away from the UK extradiction process. All they needed to do was a good sob story, enough publicity and an appeal to raise enough money...

Would the plan work? Could Clive pull it off and be free of his brother once and for all? Or would the super sleuths on MN find the hidden clue to the mystery? Was Dave an evil supervillian? Or was Clive just a feckless cocklodger from Stalyvegas? Would the bumbling loveable chancer prevail or was poor Clive's luck finally running out?

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