I have no words - woman now stranded after wanting to give birth in St Lucia (on the beach...)

[Nanny0gg]

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/uk-world-news/new-mum-stranded-after-being-8669669

What on earth were they thinking??

We'll just to digress I sometimes listen (with horror) to accounts of free birthing on the Freebirth Society podcast.
I do get why it's a bit of a movement in the USA, what with their hopeless and expensive private healthcare system and multiple examples of harm done by HCPs.
But from the U.K. with the NHS it does seem scary.

Here is one where the mother gave birth to twins at home with just her husband to help. They were born at 35 weeks and one was quite small. As the baby was grunting they then had to travel down the mountain to the nearest hospital for the baby to be checked and have a night in NICU. Living above 9000 feet the oxygen levels are reduced. I'm guessing that's not some they had thought about!

Still a part of me admires the pioneer spirit and self sufficiency.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/free-birth-society/id1231912533?i=1000578770017

firstly they didn’t get any money for the story, they only spoke out to raise awareness of a problem they’ve encountered that they have no control over

I think most people are aware that if you deliberately engineer a situation where your child cannot obtain a birth certificate (because you have no proof of the birth, and have moved to a third country which is neither the country of the child’s alleged birth, nor your own country of residence), there will be red tape to deal with and it will take time to sort out.

The fact Clive and Iuliia thought that this fact needed “Awareness Raising” rather than being patently obvious to anyone with half a brain, does not speak well of them.

This is a situation entirely of their own making, it doesn't matter how nice,pleasant ,they are. They decided to do something with no research, no idea of any problems that might arise and they now want special treatment because they either ; did no forward planning or ignored any negative information that they discovered during that planning.
I'm interested in the story as I would like them to tell us, clearly, what they thought would happen ,what they based those ideas on, and what was their plan b. And was there really a plan a?

secondly, Liza hasn’t been abandoned, she’s happy as Larry being well looked after by Kristina, enjoying her summer holidays, she’s going to Blackpool pleasure beach with us for my daughters birthday in a couple of weeks and doesn’t feel ‘abandoned’ in any way

That is not the positive you seem to think it is. If an 8 year old hasn’t seen her parents for 6 months, and no prospect of them returning in the near future, but she isn’t bothered at all and isn’t really missing them, that really does suggest that they were a very uninvolved set of parents when they were present.

I have a seven year old, he would not cope with DH and I disappearing for six months. He’d be significantly distressed by a months’ absence, and chafing for us to get home. The fact their daughter isn’t really bothered either way (if that is actually true) would massively concern me. Neglected children are often very self-sufficient emotionally, because they have to be.

How does this fit with the 'be kind' narrative?

The world needs fewer stupid people who don't think through their decisions and then expect other people to bail them out of a situation of their own making. Their story has more holes in than Swiss cheese. You can hardly blame the authorities for being suspicious. Did you not, as her ' friend' not have any qualms whatsoever about their clearly stupid plan?

Yes quite. I went away on a work trip for a week when my child was 7. The levels of anxiety I had were very high gor even considering it. My children would certainly miss me if they had to live with relatives for 7 months no matter how many birthday parties they went to.

Can you not see the complete hypocrisy in your statement there?

You judge this poster, who you know even less about, make unpleasant remarks about their lifestyle choice and then tell them not to judge people.

@Motherofkittycats

clearly they don’t have much going on in their own life and I pity them. In fact I find it quite pathetic.

Living your “be kind” principles right there. Well done you

It looks like the consulate in Grenada have activated a work round by advising that a DNA result proving Louisa is the child of these British parents will mean they can establish British citizenship by descent for the baby, and get the documentation enabling her to travel to UK.

So Louisa will not be able to live abroad and pass her nationality on to her own children (assuming she wants them).

posts this:

never mind then feeling the need to pass judgement and make nasty comments

just after having posted this:

clearly they don’t have much going on in their own life and I pity them. In fact I find it quite pathetic.

I suffer from periodic bouts of horrendous insomnia. Which I've talked about on MN before. It's dreadful and causes me all kinds of other issues.

But yeah.

Or perhaps you were sitting at the bedside of a sick loved one and this was something to take your mind off it all.
Or maybe you were a nurse who was winding down after a Night Shift.
Or perhaps a parent with a high needs baby and awake through this night and this research gives you a focus away your own problems.

It’s not nice to make judgments on people you know nothing about. Be kind.

Laughing at the idea that people need awareness of how being a feckless thoughtless selfish parent to a level that isn't in other people's head, ignoring the concept of international borders and responsible health care for your infant needs awareness.

It's almost as if the rest of the world taken common sense for granted and this pair away with the fairies have common across the idea for the first time in their lives.

Which might not be too bad if they were in their late teens or early to mid twenties. But no, Clive hasn't come across this concept until he's fifty-fucking-one.

Which pretty much is consistent with the impression that most had of him before anyone started looking closer.

I have to say, someone coming along and saying the are mates with the couple and defending this utter bollocks probably is the icing on this cake for jaw dropping amusement mind.

I agree with every single word @RedToothBrush wrote.

I also agree with the pp who said they might be honest but they are total dipshits.

And once they put the story out there they lose control of the narrative. And no amount of berating from their friends change that.

I get you're standing up for your friends @Motherofkittycats but I don't really think you're thinking this one through.

People have talked and discussed what they read in the news for ever. Is that the problem? You're on a loosing wicket there. This story has gone round the world.

"Raising awareness " of what?
That countries require passports? Birth certificates? Have international boundaries and rules and regulations? That you need actual proof when you pitch up with a new born ( err, baby trafficking exists ....)

Perhaps it's to raise awareness that DNA tests on small islands in the West Indes take longer than in the UK. Cheers for that one.

Your friends don't look good in all this. I'm really pleased to hear their eldest daughter is doing well. But goodness me, how long were they even expecting to leave her? They will be judged for that regardless.

To me , sat at home, reading this article the main thing it has raised awareness of is how utterly foolhardy, unprepared, naive and reckless some people are.

If I had wanted a free birth, I am positive I could have organised it SO much better. It would have been cheaper, safer, quicker and legal. And I would have started by sorting out my elder daughter's passport. Not beyond the wit of most people.

So I judge.

It's loyal of you to defend your friends. But you don't look great ( or kind ) attacking other posters to do it. " The but why are you so invested, you must have a sad life " argument is always the worst and last thrown argument on here. People regularly get invested on MN because well, MN.

And whatever your feelings about your friends, you can not deny, this is a corker of a story.

I think they should raise awareness of how selling your story (or even dumber, giving away your story) can backfire massively if you don't think it through in terms of how the story will be written up and the impression it will give of you.

This is yet another example of doing something without first engaging your brain.

I thought it was pretty well known that 'the press is evil and if you sell your story they will make a hatchet job of it'.

It just shows how much this pair think it's still perfectly normal and in no way dangerous or selfish to attempt to freebirth your baby on a beach in a foreign country.

Rather than spreading awareness, perhaps it could be passed on to that that having some self awareness about how your own actions, their impact and how they affect others mind not go amiss.

We are talking about a 51 year old man and his 38 year old wife who already have an 8 year old kid not a couple of straight out of school types.

It's a whole load of other wow to be living in a world of your own to this degree. Space cadet doesn't really cut it at this level.

Its well known that the word 'but' negates everything that comes before it. The exact same applies when you use 'babes' in a Catherine Tyldsley passive aggressive sarcastic way like you just did. You just lost all respect and ruined your whole entire arguement with the needless use of one word.

It's loyal of you to defend your friends. But you don't look great ( or kind ) attacking other posters to do it. " The but why are you so invested, you must have a sad life " argument is always the worst and last thrown argument on here. People regularly get invested on MN because well, MN.

In terms of awareness of the world, I'd just like to point out this is MN. I'd like to pass on awareness of other places like Reddit or the KiwiPlace or Twitter (sorry X) or hell 4chan and say that MN really is all kinds of fluffy really. People who live in lala land really should be made aware of How The World Works.

Maybe I should write a book on this and flog it to the right new age hippy demographic. Seems like there might be an untapped market for it.

If we don't know the full story its because we haven't been given much to go, only the information that Clive and Iuliia (we assume) gave to SWNS. As someone who knows them you're more than welcome to fill us in on the full story, or at least just the pivotal facts we're unaware of. If the goal it to get them help and assistance and back home as soon as possible you'd probably be more use to them by giving a bigger picture, rather than arguing with people who have such an opposing view to you. Tell us, and we'll listen - We're all ears to learn more about their circumstances.

And @Motherofkittycats the question we all want to know the answer to, does Clive have an ex wife in Stevenage?

They've successfully raised awareness of what senseless fuckers they are.

Plus they've raised awareness to Tameside social services of crap parenting.

Plus even their own baby is looking them like 'am I really landed with this pair of fools', just check out the photo

Says someone who had no entitlement to the nhs as they ‘lived overseas’ (nhs entitlement is based on UK residence, so paying taxes to contribute to the cost of it here) who used their ‘privilege’ to fly in and incur costs to the nhs before flying out again.

*I suffer from periodic bouts of horrendous insomnia. Which I've talked about on MN before. It's dreadful and causes me all kinds of other issues.

But yeah.
*

Really @RedToothBrush you don't have to justify anything.

MN is MN . Posting on here is what it's for. And throwing out the " Overly Invested " is the last line of defence when posters can't think of anything else to say.

I for one am 💯 % overly invested in this thread and also have a lovely life. Nobody else's business tbh.

I've enjoyed all your insights.

They may not have newborns with them but thousands of people from developing countries have been arriving by boat in the uk who expect us to ignore our immigration laws.