To say that you definitely CAN make a rod for your own back when it comes to sleep, and it’s unreasonable to tell first time parents otherwise?

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First time round I bought into the whole gentle sleep thing… there’s no such thing as making a rod for your own back, sleep training is evil, it’s completely developmentally normal for children not to sleep through the night or sleep in their own beds until they’re off at uni etc. etc. (hyperbole, obviously). Parents are supposed to be completely exhausted and if you can’t cope with that then you’re selfish and don’t love your child enough to just put up with it.

I fed to sleep, contact napped and co-slept for 7 months at which point I was a zombie of a human with no relationship, sex life or me time. My child was entirely reliant on me to fall and stay asleep and had no sleep skills whatsoever of their own. I then had to sleep train which was much harsher than I would have liked ideally, but I was at the end of my tether. My baby and I were both exhausted. I barely had the energy to interact with them and we were both grouchy and miserable all the time. Once they slept through the night we were both so much happier and my baby started to thrive.

We went away with friends a few months ago who are in a similar position with their 18 month old. She spends hours feeding to sleep and then spends every night on a floor bed with her child while her husband sleeps elsewhere. Child wakes up 4+ times per night to feed. Friend confided that the strain it’s putting on her relationship with her husband is such that she feels they could separate over it, and yet she is adamant not to sleep train because of the damage she feels it could do to her child. She isn’t planning on having any more children because of how hard sleep has been for them.

I’ve recently had my second and was determined to do things differently from the start - minimal feeding to sleep, baby puts themself to sleep (no need for leaving to cry because we’ve done it since day 1), cot naps about 75% of the time in the day and always at night, co-sleeping is rare. Baby naps well and is waking once to feed each night at 3 months old, occasionally sleeping through. Baby is well rested, calm and easy to comfort. It is so much easier this way. So, so much easier. I actually feel so angry that I wasted the first 7 months of my older child’s life being so exhausted, frustrated and unhappy.

Why do people continue to argue that you can’t create bad sleep habits for your child when you so clearly can? And by doing so you’re likely to be either setting yourself up for years of utter exhaustion, or for some very tough sleep training later down the line? It’s like a horrible trap that first time parents are being tricked into.

I’m aware this is going to be very unpopular with a lot of people, so I’m bracing myself for the anti sleep training brigade to come at me!

Should say nearly 14

3 babies, all completely different sleep patterns.

No 1 and No 2 were in their own rooms at 3 months old, mostly sleeping through the night (nothing I did, just the way they were). No 3? Didn't sleep more than 4 hours at a time until he was almost 2.5 years old. Used to regularly come in my bed for cuddles. Ever since that, has slept a good 12 hours every night in his own bed.

I co slept and breastfed and it worked well for us. I tried sleep training method and switched to formula at 3 months thinking it would be easier but in the end I ended up a zombie mum because I was forever getting up having to do sit there awake with a bottle and having to stick to Rigid routines.
I think there is a healthy balance that works.
Co sleeping and bf on demand doesn't mean no routine and sex doesn't have to happen on a bed and co sleeping doesn't have to mean putting the baby to sleep at 7am in your bed. Mine still had a cot for daytime naps and the initial bit of sleep before I went to bed.

I agree with everything you've said. I'd breastfeed without having to wake up lol. Barely noticed the night waking just kept it lopped out and baby would feed whenever she wanted to.
My children have turned out very loving and caring towards one another which I think is a result of how loved they were.

Imagine being this smug that you allowed your 7 month old to scream for you and ignored them.

Babies are not clones, they are all different. Some babies sleep better in solitude in a cot, others sleep better as co-sleepers. I think the worst thing anyone can tell a new parent is that your way is the best way and they’re doing it wrong when it comes to sleep.

Yes I agree. I have NEVER let my babies cry for more than a minute or two, but I Gad a routine from day 1 and they both slept as you say. This was the time if Gina Ford so many mums did this, at least for nights time. I was more chilled about daytime naps and I'd wake baby if going in too long.
Friends that had more of your first approach also were often a slave to it - baby stayed up all hours, needed parent to lay down with them etc.
I was never smug. I did tell my sister routine routine routine was the best piece of advice I could give.

I know and my point was that 7 months when you did do it is still very early and you couldn’t have done it any earlier, so there was so ‘rod’ anyway. You wouldn’t have magically changed those first 6 months.

I know, it’s ridiculous.

DS is autistic. I don't know if that is why he was such a bad sleeper or if it is because it turned out that he has very narrow airways and couldn't breathe properly but I'm glad I was always there for him. Happy for you to do you though.

Broadly I agree with you, problem is there’s often other stuff to consider. My first had illnesses, contact napped till 8-9 months, learnt to sleep independently at night 5.5 months, didn’t do decent stretches till 8 months despite that - cos she was ill.

Second naps all over the place, but will do half an hour max in her cot cos she is only used to sleeping with something else helping, whether it’s me or a moving thing. I have a life now, whereas I didn’t with my first Covid baby, and I am absolutely not giving up being able to go out to keep her sleeping in her cot while she still needs 3 naps a day. I’m willing to take that hit for now and kick the can down the road.

I think you are giving yourself too much credit. DD we obsessively put back in the cot, read all the books about sleep habits etc and she woke every 20 mins or so untill she was 9 months old. DS I decided to cosleep with and he slept through from 6 weeks. Discourage sleep associations, sure, encourage self soothing if your baby is so inclined, but don't tell other parents that their babies are bad sleepers becuase of what they did based on your huge sample of two babies, becuase that's a bit smug and shitty. Most people just do what they need to do to get by.

Agree 💯 with you!

The point of my post is that if I hadn’t let my child get into bad habits from day 1 I wouldn’t have had to sleep train at all. I had no idea that feeding or rocking to sleep every single time in the newborn phase would cause a problem that I would have to solve eventually, because I had read and bought into the idea that there’s no such thing as a bad sleep habit. We definitely could have had a different first 6 months. Not saying I can predict exactly how they would have slept but there definitely would have been less crying on both of our parts.

But someone else is creating a rod for their back by trying to get into routines and self soothing etc from day one when they'd get more sleep co-sleeping. Hindsight is 20:20 vision.

I think the issue there OP is that you're viewing certain behaviours as bad habits rather than something that didn't work for you and your child.

I fed and rocked to sleep and contact napped. Some of my friends did likewise. Others didn't. We all have sleeping, thriving children.

Someone else I know tried every sleep routine under the sun and the only way their baby slept was if their whole day was meticulously planned to the sleep consultant's schedule. I'd have found that very stressful as a parent as I liked the freedom for DC to nap whenever during the day. I have no doubt though that my friend wouldn't have chosen such a rigid daily schedule if she didn't have a very sleep- reluctant baby. She, like most of us, did what she needed for everyone to sleep.

Day 1 is a baby that's just spent 9 months being part of you, surely they need feeding, soothing, rocking, contact etc as much as possible? How can a few days old baby have "bad habits"?

I think everyone should parent according to what they feel is best - for their child, for themselves and for the family as a whole.

I ignored the "making a rod for my own back" comments and co-slept with my dc for years. I have no regrets at all. She is now a very secure, confident and resilient young woman. Is that at least in part because her needs were met effectively when she was a baby/ young child? Obviously, I will never know, I just followed my instincts about what was best for my child at the time.

If you do the same and that leads to you sleep training, then maybe that's what your child actually needs. All children and all parents are different, so there is no one size fits all solution.

All children and all parents are different, so there is no one size fits all solution.

Agree with this.
With one of mine I was, with hindsight, far too attached to the apps logging sleeps, feeds, nappies etc even though we didn't sleep train. I'd beat myself up if they slept 'too long' or didn't go to sleep after the 'correct' wake window and always felt I was chasing my tail.
The best thing for me was turning the app off and getting used to my baby's rhythm. Once I chilled out and stopped internalising all the rubbish about whether DC was a "good baby", we naturally fell into a rhythm and routine that suited them and us, and everyone was more relaxed.

I agree. I tried to follow the Little Ones Sleep Solution for DD in an attempt to get her into good sleep habits in the first few months so that she would nap in her cot and not rely on me. I remember my obsession with following the correct timings and making sure she fell asleep on her own in the cot as much as possible etc. It worked really well at first but she got more alert and stopped being able to fall asleep without my help, or to nap longer than half an hour. I got so stressed and upset every time she didn't nap long enough and every time she just wouldn't sleep in her cot. Then I joined an anti-sleep training Facebook group which told me it's okay to contact nap actually. And around 4 months old I started doing every nap either breastfeeding to sleep in bed and lying with her, or in the pram if out. I relaxed and she relaxed, those cuddle naps were my favourite part of maternity leave. I think the rod I made for my own back was attempting to follow that damned sleep solution.

I remember being at a baby massage class with my anti-natal class group and DS1 was unhappy to even lay on the mat to be massaged as he was all about lots of physical contact. Would much rather sit on my lap and look about, fought sleep desperately.

My friend's baby was tired and actively wriggled until put down alone at which point she put herself to sleep with no support at all. My friend was quite sad that she couldn't have a snuggle with a sleepy baby as her DD just didn't like it. The babies were 12 weeks or so.

I still marvel at people having lunch or whatever whilst their baby happily plays in the buggy beside them for ages - neither of mine would ever tolerate that, they screamed blue murder!

You can only work with the baby you've got, not the hypothetical one in the book. I listen to podcasts to get to sleep, for other people that would be torture and they'd be awake all night, people (including babies) are just different.

I think a lot of people just end up working out something they can live with and that gets them enough sleep to function. Given that most teenagers aren't asking their mum to sleep in their bed I reckon it all comes out in the wash eventually.

I agree with you.
I breastfed all 3 of mine on demand for a year, but on child no. 3, when he went back to wanting feeding every 2 hours to go back to sleep at 8 months, I was totally broken and exhausted. Some playgroup mums recommended the book "How to Solve your child's sleep problems " by Richard Ferber. It is such a great book.
If I had read it with my first child, we would have all had so much more sleep.

It gave a sensible plan for sleep training, we did it, and life improved quickly.
I recommend the book for all parents, esp those who have got into "bad" habits with older children. You can improve things and the book explains why.
Richard Ferber is a paediatric neurologist with a special interest in sleep.

I can’t be the only one to read some of these posts and hope the mums in question weren’t regularly driving, being so long term sleep deprived and ‘zombified’ in many cases??

@willywallaby to be honest that’s probably because she was far too young for sleep training. There’s a world of difference between sleep training at 3 months and 18 months. I’ve never seen anyone promote sleep training for tiny babies and I can see why it didn’t work.

You can't cause bad habits in the first 3 months.