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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say that you definitely CAN make a rod for your own back when it comes to sleep, and it’s unreasonable to tell first time parents otherwise?

246 replies

NameChange547 · 31/07/2023 14:38

First time round I bought into the whole gentle sleep thing… there’s no such thing as making a rod for your own back, sleep training is evil, it’s completely developmentally normal for children not to sleep through the night or sleep in their own beds until they’re off at uni etc. etc. (hyperbole, obviously). Parents are supposed to be completely exhausted and if you can’t cope with that then you’re selfish and don’t love your child enough to just put up with it.

I fed to sleep, contact napped and co-slept for 7 months at which point I was a zombie of a human with no relationship, sex life or me time. My child was entirely reliant on me to fall and stay asleep and had no sleep skills whatsoever of their own. I then had to sleep train which was much harsher than I would have liked ideally, but I was at the end of my tether. My baby and I were both exhausted. I barely had the energy to interact with them and we were both grouchy and miserable all the time. Once they slept through the night we were both so much happier and my baby started to thrive.

We went away with friends a few months ago who are in a similar position with their 18 month old. She spends hours feeding to sleep and then spends every night on a floor bed with her child while her husband sleeps elsewhere. Child wakes up 4+ times per night to feed. Friend confided that the strain it’s putting on her relationship with her husband is such that she feels they could separate over it, and yet she is adamant not to sleep train because of the damage she feels it could do to her child. She isn’t planning on having any more children because of how hard sleep has been for them.

I’ve recently had my second and was determined to do things differently from the start - minimal feeding to sleep, baby puts themself to sleep (no need for leaving to cry because we’ve done it since day 1), cot naps about 75% of the time in the day and always at night, co-sleeping is rare. Baby naps well and is waking once to feed each night at 3 months old, occasionally sleeping through. Baby is well rested, calm and easy to comfort. It is so much easier this way. So, so much easier. I actually feel so angry that I wasted the first 7 months of my older child’s life being so exhausted, frustrated and unhappy.

Why do people continue to argue that you can’t create bad sleep habits for your child when you so clearly can? And by doing so you’re likely to be either setting yourself up for years of utter exhaustion, or for some very tough sleep training later down the line? It’s like a horrible trap that first time parents are being tricked into.

I’m aware this is going to be very unpopular with a lot of people, so I’m bracing myself for the anti sleep training brigade to come at me!

OP posts:
YukoandHiro · 31/07/2023 14:58

Your second baby was an easier personality maybe? Because presumably you tried some of these things with your first (putting some when "drowsy but awake") but it just didn't work hence you fed to sleep because it worked?
My second is just a different person to my first and sleep has been so much easier - she needs more of it, she doesn't fight it etc.

devildeepbluesea · 31/07/2023 14:58

Agree OP. Learning to self settle is a life skill which is much underrated on Mumsnet.

ColonelRhubarbBikini · 31/07/2023 14:59

I do and don’t agree in ways. I think that rigidly conforming to one set idea even if it’s not working and everyone is miserable is the problem.
If your baby loves contact naps and you’re happy with it great. If you and the baby are exhausted and miserable then try something else until you hit upon something that does work.
Babies are just miniature people with their own likes and dislikes and you can’t lump them into a homogeneous group.

Natsku · 31/07/2023 14:59

After my first child, who was a nightmare sleeper and would take hours to fall asleep every night (and then wake up many times during the night, sometimes for hours at a time) I did things differently with my second and he is a much better sleeper, had difficulties for sure but nothing like with my oldest and is a dream to put to bed.

(My oldest sleeps like a log now though, and will easily sleep all day in the holidays - clearly making up for the first 6 years of her life!)

GloryBees · 31/07/2023 15:00

Agree 100%. Followed a loose routine with both my children. All the other parents who did the same had happy, settled babies. Though it seems to be a swear word here. I have friends with 5 year olds who still need to be with them whilst they fall asleep. It’s utterly insane.

tulipsunday · 31/07/2023 15:01

Agree totally OP. I had to leave a parenting forum I was on as poor mothers who were completely broken - exhausted, relationship on the rocks, baby unhappy as overtired and were desperate for advice were told to basically carry on 'you've got this mama etc' and if you gave any sleep advice you were immediately told you were wrong. Absolutely fine if somebody wants to co-sleep, feed to sleep etc as it works for their family but if it doesn't people need to be supported to find what works for them x

SilkyMint · 31/07/2023 15:01

YANBU. I think it's one of the cruellest things to tell a new parent tbh, given the problems it can store up down the line.

Of course how you handle your child's sleep will set them up for the future. If you only allow contact napping that's all they'll want, and many parents simply don't have the ability or resources to spend hours each day sat on the sofa.

Seen it time and time again amongst friendship groups: new parent, doesn't know any better, brings baby into their bed or contact naps constantly, then surprised when their three year old can't sleep through the night without being nursed or rocked back to sleep.

You can absolutely create good sleep habits and hygiene from day one if you have the knowledge and commitment. For us we didn't get lucky, DS was a terrible sleeper even though we did everything 'right' so we sleep trained at 6m and it was hands down the best thing we ever did as parents for us all.

Also the whole shaming of parents who are getting close to zero unbroken sleep for not 'enjoying every moment', for sleep training, for wanting/needing their child to sleep more than 20m at a time... I could see the future if we didn't sleep train and it looked miserable for all involved.

The 'rod for your own back' comment has fallen out of fashion but there is merit to it. Kids expect you to continue doing what you've been doing, cos they love routine. If you only ever put them to bed fast asleep they'll wake up in shock at why they're suddenly in a different place alone. If they've only ever been able to fall asleep via feeding, they will struggle to fall asleep by themselves. If they've only ever contact napped, they'll struggle to nod off in their cot. If you (God forbid!) bedshare, guess who'll still want to be in your bed when they're four?

Maray1967 · 31/07/2023 15:02

RaidFlySpray · 31/07/2023 14:40

You sound smug. Why not accept that people do things differently? You're judgy.

An unbelievably thoughtless response. The point is that new parents need to hear the cons of this so called method. I can’t see any pros to be honest.

OP , you are spot on. I set off from the start as you did with your second. I thank God there was none of this ridiculous advice 20 plus years ago. DS 2 was slower to go through the night than DS 1 but neither took ages to get to sleep in the early months. The young mums I know who are following this new advice are on their knees. How the hell can that be healthy? I was well rested and enjoying mat leave with both of mine.

LovelyGirlsCompetition · 31/07/2023 15:02

Agree with you wholeheartedly OP. I suspect you’ll get your arse handed to you, but nonetheless you present a very valid argument.

DinnaeFashYersel · 31/07/2023 15:03

I agree with a lot of what you say BUT all babies are different and what works for one family/baby wont work for everyone.

I had one amazing sleeper and one moderate sleeper - both down to their individual personalities and temperaments.

SilkyMint · 31/07/2023 15:03

elodiedie · 31/07/2023 14:42

Sleep training a baby is the best thing you can do for them and for yourself. It is not harmful in any way.

Everybody needs adequate sleep. There’s more and more evidence to show that. There’s zero evidence that sleep training is problematic.

Absolutely. It's such a relief to see so much education out there now about the benefits of sleep training, and the fact that there's zero evidence it causes any kind of harm. I know so many parents (us included) that were near-suicidal from lack of sleep, decided to sleep train and turned their lives around. It's crueller imo to leave a child so reliant on someone or something else to fall asleep that they're up crying at all hours through the night. Everyone deserves good quality sleep and to be able to fall asleep without a crutch that might not always be there.

Thisismynewusername1 · 31/07/2023 15:03

Not as simple as that. I also take the meaning of “rod for your own back” to mean creating habits that you can’t break, rather than doing things you don’t want to.

it’s about what’s best/easiest.

I got the most sleep cosleeping, feeding to sleep, night feeding contact napping etc. so that’s what I did.

they grew out of it relatively quickly with no need to sleep train.

someone else may find it different. Telling people what they are doing is wrong, and they should sleep train, or contact nap, or they will create a rod for their own back -ie be doing it forever- is wrong. If sleep training works for you, great. If it doesn’t, carry on co sleeping and don’t feel I like you’re creating a problem.

VivaVivaa · 31/07/2023 15:06

Currently I can chuck DS2 anywhere and he sleeps. He’s currently asleep in the pram having fallen asleep on the boob an hour ago. He’s already self settled in the Moses basket and napped in the sling on the nursery run this morning. I assumed as a second child he’d have far more facilitated naps etc as there would be less option for strict cot naps and routine. DS1 on the other hand screamed within seconds of being off the boob/put down at the same age despite wasting hours and days of my life spending time trying to teach self settling and routine. They are just different children. DS2 is far more chilled, it’s clear already despite being little.

Ballinluig · 31/07/2023 15:06

I'm finding it difficult to understand why you think your absolutely tiny sample size is conclusive proof that this is everyone's experience?

Yonderway · 31/07/2023 15:07

Every baby is different and every parent is different. What works for one won't for another.
Just because you were not happy co sleeping it doesn't mean it is not the right thing for many other people. Anymore than it's right to say everyone should sleep train their babies. It won't work on every baby
Just do what works for you and your baby

AnkleWidget · 31/07/2023 15:07

You do you. Well done for being so much better the second time round.

EdithGrantham · 31/07/2023 15:07

Duttercup · 31/07/2023 14:52

You're no different to the 'anti-sleep training brigade'. You're all just as militant as each other and, broadly, make it impossible to access any kind of help online.

Something worked for you, something else didn't work for you. It doesn't make one thing better or worse, different mums, different babies.

Completely agree with this.

I still co-sleep part of the night with my DD who is nearly 2 as it gets me the most sleep, her the most sleep, doesn't interfere with my relationship, I enjoy it and it matches how I want to parent. We also did contact naps up until fairly recently.

My friend has put her DS in his own room from 3 months, no feeding to sleep, doesn't go in to him unless he's been crying 10 minutes or more and he has all his naps in his cots. This last part seems crazy to me because they never go out for more than 2 hours at a time because they need to be home for his very long naps. BUT, it suits them and they think I'm crazy for the way I do it.

People can complain about things at the same time as not wanting to change them. If I complained about my job to a friend and they showed no sympathy, just told me to quit and join their career instead I'd be pretty miffed.

SecretVictoria · 31/07/2023 15:09

I must admit I was surprised the other night. I was watching ‘Not Going Out’ and the daughter shouted from upstairs “Mummy, can you lie with me till I fall asleep!” and she’s (in the show) at high school.

Do Lee Mack and the writers think that’s a usual request from a high school student??

Whyjustwhy123 · 31/07/2023 15:09

The problem is there is just no way of telling.

You think it’s the sleep training that made a difference but you just do not know. There are so many unknown factors that are in play.

So all we can do is be kind to ourselves and each other when it comes to sleep.

The funny thing is both my children were terrible sleepers as babies (various health issues at play) but are now super independent with bedtimes. So though it feels overwhelming at the time in the long term it really doesn’t make much difference.

WeetabixTowels · 31/07/2023 15:10

YANBU

I Co slept with DS (second child) because it felt like the easiest thing to do especially with a toddler who still woke.
It was bloody years before he’d sleep in his own bed.

Thegrumpycup · 31/07/2023 15:11

Agree that is is down to nothing other than luck of the draw.

I had two DC that slept through by 3 months old. Which everyone on MN likes to tell me is physically impossible. 🙄But they did. I fed and cuddled both to sleep until they were a year old. How does that work?!

Mt unpopular opinion is that the bad sleepers I know are all BF. The ones who slept through early on were all FF. THIS IS NOT WHY I FF!

Newusernameforthiss · 31/07/2023 15:13

Just luck, I have twins and they are completely different, same diet, same room, same bedtime routine, same routine

One is a perfect sleeper, the other is up at 5 and has terrible dreams

So you can be smug but at the end of the day... Just luck

SemperIdem · 31/07/2023 15:13

Lots of people think “cry it out” is the one and only way to sleep train. It is not, it’s an extreme version.

Screamingabdabz · 31/07/2023 15:14

It may be looking back with rose tinted spectacles but me and my DH loved those sleepy, exhausted times. We always had one kid in bed with us at any one time (sometimes two) but it didn’t stop us having a sex life or fun together.

I’m sure there were fractious times but that’s not what I remember. We were in it together and that’s what we’d chosen. To have a family and all the chaos that comes with it. It was bonding for us.

They all eventually settled down in their own beds (usually when the next baby came along) but still hopped in if they had a nightmare or a wee accident. We loved those cuddly times. I can’t imagine going back in time and wishing that away with ‘sleep training’.

Smellslikesummer · 31/07/2023 15:14

RaidFlySpray · 31/07/2023 14:40

You sound smug. Why not accept that people do things differently? You're judgy.

I don’t find the OP judgy at all. It is the advice given to new parents that is judgy (sleeping, breastfeeding, baby led weaning etc etc)