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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say that you definitely CAN make a rod for your own back when it comes to sleep, and it’s unreasonable to tell first time parents otherwise?

246 replies

NameChange547 · 31/07/2023 14:38

First time round I bought into the whole gentle sleep thing… there’s no such thing as making a rod for your own back, sleep training is evil, it’s completely developmentally normal for children not to sleep through the night or sleep in their own beds until they’re off at uni etc. etc. (hyperbole, obviously). Parents are supposed to be completely exhausted and if you can’t cope with that then you’re selfish and don’t love your child enough to just put up with it.

I fed to sleep, contact napped and co-slept for 7 months at which point I was a zombie of a human with no relationship, sex life or me time. My child was entirely reliant on me to fall and stay asleep and had no sleep skills whatsoever of their own. I then had to sleep train which was much harsher than I would have liked ideally, but I was at the end of my tether. My baby and I were both exhausted. I barely had the energy to interact with them and we were both grouchy and miserable all the time. Once they slept through the night we were both so much happier and my baby started to thrive.

We went away with friends a few months ago who are in a similar position with their 18 month old. She spends hours feeding to sleep and then spends every night on a floor bed with her child while her husband sleeps elsewhere. Child wakes up 4+ times per night to feed. Friend confided that the strain it’s putting on her relationship with her husband is such that she feels they could separate over it, and yet she is adamant not to sleep train because of the damage she feels it could do to her child. She isn’t planning on having any more children because of how hard sleep has been for them.

I’ve recently had my second and was determined to do things differently from the start - minimal feeding to sleep, baby puts themself to sleep (no need for leaving to cry because we’ve done it since day 1), cot naps about 75% of the time in the day and always at night, co-sleeping is rare. Baby naps well and is waking once to feed each night at 3 months old, occasionally sleeping through. Baby is well rested, calm and easy to comfort. It is so much easier this way. So, so much easier. I actually feel so angry that I wasted the first 7 months of my older child’s life being so exhausted, frustrated and unhappy.

Why do people continue to argue that you can’t create bad sleep habits for your child when you so clearly can? And by doing so you’re likely to be either setting yourself up for years of utter exhaustion, or for some very tough sleep training later down the line? It’s like a horrible trap that first time parents are being tricked into.

I’m aware this is going to be very unpopular with a lot of people, so I’m bracing myself for the anti sleep training brigade to come at me!

OP posts:
tillylula · 31/07/2023 15:54

I found I was more sleep deprived trying to keep my baby in the cot, feeding her sat up in bed multiple times a night, falling asleep and putting her in danger. Once I mastered feeding laying down I wasn't sleep deprived atall.

My second was much better than my first but I bedshared from day 1.

I wake up more than My own kids. I was told I was in for a shock when pregnant with my first but I still woke up more than her and still do. I'm a terrible sleeper. How can i expect them to be any better?

I'm of the veiw that you do what you want and keep your beak out of everyone else's business

Beezknees · 31/07/2023 15:54

I co slept, never had any issue with it personally. He definitely doesn't co sleep with me now at 15!

ClemFandango1 · 31/07/2023 15:56

It's incredibly easy to fall into 'bad' habits, I did it with first child.

There's mostly always going to be a hump of discomfort for both baby and parent to get over, and that can be very daunting.

Child 2 I sleep trained v early and, fingers crossed, it's worked.

Of course some children, I imagine, are unsuited to it.

Stompythedinosaur · 31/07/2023 15:56

I'm inclined to think that if people are confident in their parenting decisions they don't feel the need to push them on others as "the only option".

You don't have to sleep train. There's no evidence to support that it is the best choice (there's not much evidence to support either way). I didn't, it was the right choice for us, and my dc did eventually sleep through and are thriving.

So how about we let new parents know what options there are and work out what works for them?

DancingInTheRaindrops · 31/07/2023 15:59

I am so glad l had my children when l did as everything seems way over complicated now.

Smellslikesummer · 31/07/2023 15:59

VivaVivaa · 31/07/2023 15:16

How is advising parents to breastfeed ‘judgy’?Confused

The way it is advised is often judgy, a lot of new mums feel a huge pressure for things that should be a personal (educated) choice.

Magssss · 31/07/2023 16:02

The thing I think is not ideal is when parents with older babies/toddlers/children sit or lie next to their child until they fall asleep. I have 4 kids and if i did that I would have no evening to myself ever and probably have some sort of breakdown!

I feel like it teaches children that there IS something about going to sleep that is inherently scary and they can't do it without a parent. I have a friend who did this with her all her kids. On holiday together she was having to sit with her 11yo for hours whilst my 1yo fell asleep in minutes by himself. It was absolute lunacy and she has been exhausted for about 15 years.

Catspyjamas17 · 31/07/2023 16:08

In a lot of cultures around the world there is a lot of co-sleeping and children do not go to sleep in a room on their own @Magssss

People try and do what works for them. At some points for us there have been periods of sitting with DDs to go to sleep.

It wouldn't work for me to have four children. I couldn't do my job, and then we couldn't afford to live in our house, or to live full stop. Everyone is different.

Mumsanetta · 31/07/2023 16:08

Emmamoo89 · 31/07/2023 15:48

Nope. It's the first 14 months. I don't think it's cruel just think it's too soon to do it

Are you sure? I (and the first 4 results of my Google search) seem to think it’s 12 weeks and that would also reflect why most sleep programmes start at 12 weeks.

To say that you definitely CAN make a rod for your own back when it comes to sleep, and it’s unreasonable to tell first time parents otherwise?
Beelezebub · 31/07/2023 16:09

I’m in COMPLETE agreement OP.

beamss · 31/07/2023 16:09

RaidFlySpray · 31/07/2023 14:40

You sound smug. Why not accept that people do things differently? You're judgy.

Bollocks. I agree with op wholeheartedly

KnittedCardi · 31/07/2023 16:10

It's not just about sleeping though either. Thinking back both my babies were quite happy being awake in their cots or prams and passing the time of day. If they are awake and happy, looking at stuff, burbling, singing, waving their legs and arms about, do not disturb was my motto.

beamss · 31/07/2023 16:11

ADHD is caused by stress in the first year of life

Not sure I've ever seen this said ever

Magssss · 31/07/2023 16:12

@Catspyjamas17 yes I do acknowledge that people do things differently around the world but I do find it frustrating when people complain about having no sleep/no alone time but have chosen to sit for hours next to a child when they have the option not to.

Mariposista · 31/07/2023 16:16

cptartapp · 31/07/2023 14:51

I stopped bf at three months because I wanted more sleep. Put them in their room at six weeks, gave them weetabix at bedtime at four months and pulled the door to. They never ever ever came into our bed. They grew up never knowing it was an option. Both slept well from three to four months barring illness.
I was going back to work early and figured as I ran the show their needs didn't trump mine. Twenty years on, all bonded, all healthy, no sleep deprived memories tainting their childhood. Marriage intact.
I was lucky maybe but would do the same again.

Agree with you. We both had jobs that require concentration, an older child who needs sleep too before school, we actually want a marriage where we aren’t always being rude to each other out of tiredness and YES, sometimes we want sex.
2 teenagers now who probably sleep too much haha

LolaSmiles · 31/07/2023 16:23

Catspyjamas17yes I do acknowledge that people do things differently around the world but I do find it frustrating when people complain about having no sleep/no alone time but have chosen to sit for hours next to a child when they have the option not to.
But it depends on their child and their child's needs. That's what most of the 'you don't have to, just sleep train etc' people miss.

If my friends are having a rough time then they need a friend to listen and understand that all babies and toddlers are different. Not a friend who's inwardly thinking they know best and they wouldn't have these issues if they used whatever sleep training system I decide is best.

I never had the view that I've had a baby and I'm entitled to have every evening to myself and a full night of uninterrupted sleep because I think that's a harmful expectation to place on parents (see also people getting smug and judged that people who don't sleep train at a few months old are making a rod for their own back).

sunglassesonthetable · 31/07/2023 16:24

4 Kids.

Did gentle sleep/ bed routines from the off which turned into bedtime routines.

Their cots were a place of winding down and rest for them. I Built on that association.

Never turned the light on at night and kept night time feeds very boring.

Never ever fed to sleep as I think that sets you up to fail in the future. Milk doesn't put a toddler to sleep.

Worked for me. And didn't have to 'sleep train'.

It was all about gentle routine and teaching my LOs good sleep habits imo. Same as I've tried to teach good eating habits.

But each to their own. It's not a competition and you can't tell which children slept well or didn't when they're older.

There's almost a religion around this and it's very personal. People can get very upset.

I think you've done the right thing OP. Tired babies are just as much hard work as tired mothers.

prescribingmum · 31/07/2023 16:25

Parents are supposed to be completely exhausted and if you can’t cope with that then you’re selfish and don’t love your child enough to just put up with it.

This is the part that I despise about Sarah Ockwell Smith and anyone who claims to follow her.

Co-sleeping and feeding to sleep is absolutely fantastic IF it works for you and your family. In many cases, everyone gets rest this way as baby latches on and off through the night and mum is happy with baby in the bed. However, if it is leaving you sleep deprived, exhausted, low in mood and unable to function, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with looking for another way which does work. Babies are much happier when they are well-rested and it makes parenting a much easier job all round. Sleep is also vital for babies and children's brain development (a fact all the martyrs fail to acknowledge when they proudly wear their exhaustion badge)

If the sleep board on here is anything like it was 6 years ago, avoid it like the plague. Used to be full of martyrs who were supposedly much better parents because they sacrificed their every need so their baby did not get 'harmed' from having to sleep at a time convenient for the family (and society)🙄

Cleethorpes · 31/07/2023 16:27

I agree with you OP.

Curtains70 · 31/07/2023 16:30

Totally agree to be honest

prescribingmum · 31/07/2023 16:31

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 31/07/2023 14:52

I kind of get it, and really tried not to make a rod for own back with DC2, having been accused so much of doing so with DC1, told everything was my fault etc.

DC1 is a very self assured, independent minded teenager who excels academically

DC2 has ADHD and is very clingy still aged 9, needs alot of reassurance. Struggles to concentrate at school.

It’s very hard not to blame yourself when you then get the “ADHD is caused by stress in the first year of life” barked at you on here and the media. I didn’t do anything full on CC / CIO with DC2, just a tried to do a bit of a routine, feed at certain times, try putting him down awake etc. Let now Exh “learn for himself” with looking after him as always advised on here. Didn’t leave him bawling for hours or anything - or at all!

ADHD is not caused by stress, please do not blame yourself. You have not caused this. There is a strong genetic link and links to other events such as brain damage, early onset epilepsy and prematurity. There is NO proven link to stress in early life. Be kind to yourself, I have no doubt you are a wonderful mum

Magssss · 31/07/2023 16:32

@LolaSmiles but did you miss the part where I said that the child was 11? That is mad in my opinion.

bakewellbride · 31/07/2023 16:34

A baby 'putting themselves to sleep from day 1' is not the best thing for a baby imo.

Each to their own but I could never, ever sleep train. It just seems wrong and unnatural to me. My eldest I let sleep on me for months and months and no it didn't create a monster. He just happily went in his cot one day and slept 7-7.

My friend's friend sleep trained 'gently' and the kid spent hours one night sat in his own vomit because he didn't bother crying as he had been programmed to believe no one would come. Just awful.

My second child - the sleep deprivation almost destroyed me but I stuck things out and things are much better now she's a toddler.

BlossomCloud · 31/07/2023 16:38

My children were never going to sleep well as babies until we got to the bottom of their allergies. Each time we got to the bottom of their allergies they switched to sleeping well. "Sleep training" them when they were just uncomfortable would have been cruel.

Before sleep training it is important to be sure there isn't an underlying issue

Kindofcrunchy · 31/07/2023 16:40

You can sleep when you're dead. Babies are only tiny for such a short time. YABU